Anyone up on witness dogma?

by FrightMare 24 years ago 29 Replies latest 24 years ago jw friends

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  LittleToe 24 years ago

  Hi Sunbeam,

  >> PS and I are born-agains.
  >> But don't let that put you off
  It doesn't. So am I, but in retrospect, surprised whilst still within. Do you attend a church?
  You see I've come to be of the opinion (cutting clean through what I've been taught, thanks to the HS) that there aren't just good and bad in all religions (as well as outwith), but those that are truly born-again, too.
  I'm more than pleased to make your acquaintance, dear sister.
  I'm starting to realise what a difficult time Cliff Richard must have had with Hank Marvin. It must have distressed him.

  >> So PS, are you as good as Vic Reeves?
  "And I saw her face, Now I'm a believer..."
  ROFL

  I think that the more humour I can get today, the better.
  Ah well, time for lunch.
  Catch ya later, perhaps even for a chatroom chat?

  LT

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  drahcir yarrum 24 years ago

  I'm not certain how much "new light" has been introduced on the subject of military service for JW's but I do remember back in the 1960's the Watchtower had a series of Sunday study articles on blood guilt. The theory put forth was that simply being a member of the military in any capacity made one blood guilty in God's eyes. A supply clerk was just as guilty as a fighter pilot. I remember at the time thinking, after Armageddon will Jehovah assign the same blood guilt to himself.

  As to Fredhall's comment about the bible not saying that Cornelius remained in the Roman army, it also did not say that he left. That's a strange ommission for such a serious matter as blood guilt. Isn't it?

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  Pubsinger 24 years ago

  LADIES AND GENTLEMEN PUBSINGER IS IN THE BUILDING!!

  Hi Littletoe and Sunbeam.

  Just read your posts. Of course I'm not as good as Vic Reeves!

  I really do sing and play guitar on the Pub and Social club circuit.
  ( Hey, did that make me a Circuit Overseer when I was JW?!)

  I used to be in bands and a duo before I went solo. (MUCH better money!)

  I'm also in the worship group at my local church. Some of the Christian music is fantastic. Although not quite as good as "Kingdom Muddlies"

  You are probably right about Cliff and Hank. I find the Shadows most distressing!

  On a slightly different note(!) This DA'd by ones actions stuff has got to be one of the most inconsistent rulings going.

  I actually agree, that by going to another church, my actions show that I no longer am JW or dont abide by their rules any longer.
  But so does someone who drifts away maybe as a teenager and then who years later, although being baptised, lives with somebody. They DA themselves by there actions. But the congs. cant be bothered to chase them up and so lots of people still talk to them and do not shun them.

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  LittleToe 24 years ago

  Hi PS,

  Quote:
  >> This DA'd by ones actions stuff has got to be one of the most inconsistent rulings going.<<
  >> the congs. cant be bothered to chase them up and so lots of people still talk to them and do not shun them.<<

  The reason it is so inconsistant is that it is a judgement call by the local BOE. P.99,100 "Pay Attention" covers this. I can't conscienciously reprint it for you, but I bet someone will.

  Quote:
  >> You are probably right about Cliff and Hank. I find the Shadows most distressing!<<
  ROFL
  I found it interesting to see Sir Cliff making money out of the "Lord's Prayer" (I imagine the proceeds went to charity, but dont know). I guess there's no copyright infringement involved, but it was kinda unusual.

  LT

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  thewiz 24 years ago

  As I understand it, a person can become a JW while still in the military but it is also with the understanding that they will leave.

  If a person IS a JW and they join, they have joined an org or group that does not align with the bible's admonishion of not living by the sword. They then automatically Disassociate themselves by this action.

  Also, I once had a friend who was in the military (?Navy) in Whidbey Island, Oak Harbor, WA, USA. I believe he was asked two questions by the elders

  1) Do you salute fellow officers?
  2) Do you salute the flag?

  He said NO to both. Whereupon he was allowed to be a candidate for baptised.

  I can't see the original post while making my post, so I have to go by assumption. Why do you call it witness dogma to join the military?
  There are many chirstian groups who feel the same way. Many recognize this scriptual point, and of course there are many that do not.

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  Pubsinger 24 years ago

  Hi Little toe.

  Yeah I know that DA by actions is an elder decision and thats what I meant. Its inconsistent application.

  As for Cliff and the Lords Prayer. I think as JWs we are paranoid about being seen to make/receive money from Christian means. Now obviously there are some charletans in every walk of life, but I dont think Cliff needs the cash. However he did succeed in taking Christs words to no.1. Personally I think it was a master stroke in Christian witnessing , someone using their position to spread the gospel.

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  ozziepost 24 years ago

  With regard to the current position on blood i.e. the 'offender' is viewed as DA, this new procedure actually makes it simpler for a JC. The penalty is automatic, unlike a DF offense which has to be deliberated upon and invariably the 'guilty person' is 'placed' on restrictions. With blood, no restrictions, nothing, just DA i.e. shunning.

  IMO the new procedure reveals a HARSHER attitude by the borg.

  However, will the elders check? Therein lies a glimmer of relaxing of the Pharisaical rules.

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
  Anonymous

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  Sunbeam 24 years ago

  Hello again Pubsinger and LittleToe

  Great to hear from you both.

  PS - I've very envious of your musical talents. I'm totally tone-deaf and can't carry a tune. But I'm married to a guitarist in a punk band, so you could say that in my case it's an advantage .

  LT - as I said, I just pop in to this forum occasionally, but if you would like to chat further please feel free to e-mail me. Delighted to meet you. You must be in a tough position, having to remain active and contend with witness relatives.

  You asked if I attend a church. I started attending my current church straight after I became a Christian. The teaching is very sound, bible-based, fundy stuff. More info and all of the last few years' sermons are at it's website: www.church.org.uk.

  Re Cliff, I did hear that when he converted he'd originally intended to quit his day job in favour of some form of Christian work. For Tearfund, I think. But they told him that he was doing more good - financially and PR-wise - in his current position. I think the Lord's Prayer issue kinda proves that.

  Love

  Sunbeam
  xxxx

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  LittleToe 24 years ago

  Hi Sunbeam,

  I did try to email Pubsinger and yourself, at the advertised email addresses. I don't know if you got anything.
  If not, could you try mine - it's now active.

  Thanks, in advance,

  LT

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  thewiz 24 years ago

  Well if GOD doesn't blow up the world then certainly all the stock piles of nuclear weapons, or that one 6 mile asteroid lurking out there will.

  I wonder, what do any of the posters out there, not in the USA, think of the US military. Does the US military impose itself on other soveriegnties?

  Most people here in the USA, think that US bombs only kill bad people. I heard a comedian, with a sarcastic witsay, "we have the friendly bombs."

  FYI - I've played a variety of musical instruments, mainly guitar 23 years. Am I any good? not anymore -I've pretty much lost the will to do anything anymore. Everytime I pick one up, or anything for that matter, I eventual start telling myself sub-conscienciously, I suppose, what's the use. The Joy in just about anything I do or pick up is gone.

  I guess I've been stuck in my Ecclesiastes stage, ya' know, "everything is vanity" shpeel, for about 17 years. It kinda came when I told myself, "Now why did they (WTBS) have to lie, they've ruined everything (probably about 1975)! what do they think everybody in the org. is stupid and forgets that easily?!" -The futility of truth.

  Like, my holy sage prophet, Homer Simpson says, "agh, whataya' gonna do?"

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