Would you look a gift horse in the mouth?

by LittleToe 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  LittleToe

  I guess this is a wide-ranging topic, but as a starter for ten I wanted to ask about the issue of support and where we accept it from.

  For those of us (most of us here) who have lost friends, family, beliefs, etc., probably one of the things we could most do with is a little support. The flip side of the coin, however, is that we often have deeply implanted triggers and prejudices about what we will tolerate. One of these surrounds religion (from the Salvation Army to the Red Cross) and another around mental health services. These are two of my favourite subjects

  On a recent thread Dansk makes a few comments that seem to reach to the heart of this, and since I know him pretty well, I'm sure he wont be in the least bit upset if I pick on his comments to make a few points to start the ball rolling. I started replying there, but realised that I didn't want to side-track his own thread, so I'll address him directly here:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/119506/6.ashx

  Ian:

  What I've found with most JW support groups over here is that they tend to be Christian-based, usually born agains.

  You don't think it's kinda telling that they are practically the only ones to actually organise support?

  Once I realised I'd contacted a Born Again group I had to drop them quick. I was receiving telephone calls from all over the country.

  Sounds like real concern, to me.

  Setting aside the occasionally pushy ones who want to convert ya, surely you've got to give them ten out of ten for effort? I can't help wonder how much support is refused by folks, mainly due to previously emplanted triggers from the WTS.

  If ya don't want converting just tell them so. If they're genuine they'll stick by you. If they're not, you'll get your wish anyhow.
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  greendawn

  As long as one avoids groups with a cultic character that like putting psychological pressure on their members and making unreasonable demands from them while offering them nothing of real value, as well as having outlandish wayward ideas.
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  fullofdoubtnow

  Hi LT,

  Obviously we all need support when we leave the wts. I certainly did, but having a really good friend (Trev) who had left some time before me helped me a lot, and, coupled with the fact that I have no family in the org, being with him and coming here has been enough for me. I still have my moments, but I'm well on the road to full recovery.

  My friend Marion, who has just exited, has us for support, and gets on here a few days a week when she visits us, at least on meeting days, though she can come at other times if she wishes, but thinks we should have a couple of days a week for just the 2 of us. She has lost family, her oldest son has informed her that he will shun her henceforth, and she won't be allowed to see her grandchildren, although her youngest son isn't a jw, and her sister who is one won't be shunning her, which is a relief.

  She has actually talked about going to church, and has asked me to go with her, which I am considering. I don't know if that would help her, but if it does then I would encourage her to do it. Anything that helps you through the initial period after leaving the jws is worth pursuing, in my opinion. I don't feel any particular need to go to church, and neither did Trev when he left, but if it helps Marion, then it will be worthwhile. I think she's thinking about going to an Elim church near us, just to try it, and if she does she will no doubt post her feelings about it on here.

  Linda

  btw I left you a message on the fellow Brits thread
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  LittleToe

  Linda:It has long been my humble opinion that for an exJW just to walk through the doors of a church is to break down an important barrier. I mean that in a totally non-religious sense. If they get something more from the service, then all so much the better, but that wouldn't be my primary reason for encouraging it. After demonising other religions for years, due to our conditioning, it can be an incredibly scary/liberating/emotional event.

  Just a word of caution, though. The "Elim" churches I've attended have usually been Charismatic in nature. That can often be as excessive as an ultra-conservative (JW-like) church, to a newly exited JW. If it's in a new building with Kingdom Hall style chairs, it might compound it.

  I'm probably speaking out of turn, and doing that "Elim" church no favours as I wont know that particular one. However I tend to recommend folks go for a traditional old church with a steeple, for their first experience. Looking out for a congregation of a reasonable size also helps, as you can hide in the numbers without feeling like you stick out amongst just a few dozen worshippers. You can slip in and out of the back with absolutely no obligation, and still retain your anonymity, if that's your wish
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  fullofdoubtnow

  LT,

  I agree with you about the Elim churches - from what I've heard, but never experienced, the services can be a little bit over the top. I think Marion really wants me and Trev, or atleast me, to go with her, and maybe feels the fact that the Elim church is only a few minutes walk from here might encourage us. I know that if it was across the road Trev wouldn't go to it, but I might, just to make sure she's ok with it, though I will encourage her to go to a less charismatic style meeting at first. I'll be ringing her later, so we'll discuss it then.

  Linda
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  Why Georgia

  
  Hi LT,

  Although I am not a JW, nor have I ever been one...I am married to one (he's a fader now, but I always worry he'll go back). I wish there had been a support group to help me deal with the issue of having the JW's brought into my life when I first was with my husband.

  Someone should write a book called - What to do when your husband/wife/boyfriend - etc, goes back to his strict religious upbringing and leaves you behind." At the time, well meaning people suggested reading Steve Hassan or Ray Franz - but when you are in a burning building you don't have time to read the operations manual for the fire extinguisher!

  I accepted support from anyone who had been a JW and wasn't now. I talked to everyone I could, not always people I should be talking to, because there are some real wacko's in the world. It helped me enormously to know why my husband was behaving in the way he was, and it continues to help when we have issues because of his upbringing or JW family.

  I don't care what anyone says, but being the Unbelieving Mate to a Jehovahs Witness feels like being a Muslim on September 12 - EVERYDAY!!! Especially where I live, because my husband lived in this area for 30+ years and all of his family are JW's. The full blame for him not being a super-dub rests on my head and is taken out on me and our children.

  I want the support, and some days I really need the support...but like Ian, I am leary of religious people offering help. I saw how religous people have treated my husband like he was stupid because of his deeply ingrained religous beliefs. I don't like being coddled or someone going - Poor Chrystal for being married to a Jehovahs Witness....because that has happened at my parents church. I also don't want your support if its conditional on me joining your church.

  I'm sorry this got so long and if I highjacked your post.

  Best Regards,

  Chrystal
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  LittleToe

  Chrystal:
  That's exactly the kind of experience and view I was happy to see discussed, so there's no apology required

  IMHO both within religion and outwith it, there are lots of whackos and stupid people. More often than not they genuinely are trying to do what they think is best, but that doesn't really excuse some of the behaviours that get exhibited.

  Unsurprisingly, like minds tend to gather together, and unfortunately that often reveals itself in a communal setting like a religion. I do wonder whether or not the more whacked out religions are more a symptom than a cause, however I have to admit a view that they often seem to feed the psychosis.

  I cringe when I hear uber-christians say they have a love of souls, but show little regard for the individual souls that they are meddling in the lives of.

  LT, of the "unorthodox Christian" class
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  carla

  When this all first started for us we went to a local church and met with a minister. He was great and willing to try and help, never did he expect us to join his church. His other minister who we also met with hoped we would, of course, but even if we ended up at the bigger church down the street that was ok too. His hope was that my jw would come to know Jesus and felt he would never do that being a jw.

  Later I went back and lent him a book 'Out of the Cults and into the Church' so he could see how difficult it is for former cult members (this book doesn't even have a jw in it, has other groups) to even walk into church. He had told me he had a jw lady and her son 'sitting on the fence'. He also had a jw who drove about 45 miles to attend his church so nobody he knew would see him go in or see his car. Sad.
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  LittleToe

  Carla:
  Thanks for that. Those kind of experiences aren't uncommon. It does kinda highlight that many Ministers just have an interest in people, rather than a predatory interest in getting people to join their church. It takes a weight off the shoulders, doesn't it?

  This is why I would reiterate that singly the most libertating thing an exJW can usually do is go visit one, even once - just for the experience of having done it.
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  Sparkplug

  Morning LT!

  I recall when I first went to another church here in Dallas and it was exactly as you say. Very liberating and very important to me releasing my mind from the JW experience. I believe it was Methodist. I really was a bit taken aback for the preacher was a female. Well you can imagine this was so very strange. then at the end everybody went up to the front to be saved, something like that.

  Now doing wedding photography, I end up in a lot of churches. It was still very awkward, but seeing the weddings I have done are mostly Hard core Baptist and also Church of God in Christ. It seems that it always turns into "having church" before the ceremony.

  What I am trying to say is that it has helped a lot and I had not really seen that till I read what you wrote. I am a lot more at ease around different faiths. I am a lot more respectful of peoples beliefs than I was as a JW. I find that a bit funny. It took me not being a JW to make me understanding of other people.

  Decki