Jehovah God and God

Geronimo

I realized today that when I was a Dub I unconsciously made a distinction between Jehovah God and GOD. I had always thought of GOD as infinite eternal conscious energy and Love, the sum and Ground of Being Itself. Impersonal except as personified in sentient beings such as ourselves. When the Dubs put a name to it, JEHOVAH God, they thereby shrunk God down to fit their little minds and even littler hearts. On an unconscious level I thought of Jehovah as merely a god that made the earth with his nasty helpers, and pretty much spied on everyone to make sure the party was pooped on. Again, this was not on a conscious level. If it had been I would have burst out laughing in KH and gotten up and left. Anyone who believes in this silly little deity and his voyeuristic ways and egotistical insecure hateful agenda is a fool.

AND YOU CAN QUOTE ME! G

Narkissos

Why do I get an error message when I try to reply to this thread?

Shazard

Nark, coz you are not quoting :) But on topic. I agree, and they don't think much even what the name "YHWH" means. That exactly means - "One who brings existence into being"... Even names of God reflects only some of his characteristics without actually saying too much about his nature. This name YHWH is the most close we can get to God by means of language. For more is dangerous, for more God have to do it on his own initiative, and he did - in Jesus Christ

trevor

Reminds me of a song:

Away out here they got a name
For rain and wind and fire
The rain is Tess, the fire Joe,
And they call the wind Maria

loli

Excellent post!

loli

Okay, my computer got ahead of me and sent my reply prematurely. Anyway, after leaving WTS, I started challenging all of what I had been taught up to that point, including the name Jehovah. Personally, it always felt like obnoxious overkill how much the dubs insisted on its use. Once I really dug into other belief systems, I stumbled into some Gnostic theories. I don't think ANY man-made school of thought can have the monopoly on the divine, however, some theories have some really good points. Definitely, I don't think Christianity in any form today has much to do with Jesus' life and teachings. Gnostics feel that our planet is governed by an inferior demi-god that gets a kick out of animal sacrifice and bloodshed. The supreme creative force is far beyond all of that. For the record, I do not consider myself a Gnostic, I just think they make some very valid points. Peace to all, Loli

Narkissos

The reply I tried to post was formal:

At least, in English, "Jehovah God" may seem to mean something: "Jehovah" works as a determinative (hence a semantic reduction) of "God". But the French usual translation is completely meaningless, since there is no similar use of the juxtaposition in French syntax. Unless you take the two terms as first name and family name, as in "Jacques Chirac".

(Not to mention "Satan the Devil," who sounded like a cartoon character and is not even found in the Bible...)

As to the core of the issue, I believe the big problem of monotheism is historical. The notion of "God" happen to emerge, not as an alternative to "the gods," but as the self-revelation of Yhwh, previously regarded as "one of the gods". As a result, most of the earlier Yhwh stories simply do not suit "God," and monotheism is constantly struggling at explaining them away -- through allegory, anthropomorphism etc. Gnosticism, otoh, severs the Gordian knot by positing the true Origin as distinct from the OT god altogether.

Geronimo

Nark, coz you are not quoting :) But on topic. I agree, and they don't think much even what the name "YHWH" means. That exactly means - "One who brings existence into being"... Even names of God reflects only some of his characteristics without actually saying too much about his nature. This name YHWH is the most close we can get to God by means of language. For more is dangerous, for more God have to do it on his own initiative, and he did - in Jesus Christ

Greetings Shazard. I am quite aware of the etymological origin and significance of YHWH. You made the stement that YHWH is the "most close we can get to God by means of language." I would consider studying other world religions Shaz. Each has it's own Sacred Name, which is indeed imbued with Power, a Power that comes forth from the Mind of those who have faith in the Name. Be it YHWH or OM or Shiva or simply Universal Mind. What matters is the faith of the faithful. Faith opens inner channels, for want of a more precise terminology, that allow the immanental Divine Consciousness to flow unimpeded into our personal consciousness, which is itself an individualized manifestation of the Universal Consciousness. I'm not denying that you do indeed experience the Divine Presence in your use of and reverence for YHWH. I AM saying that by making a universal claim for a divine name that arose in a particular time and place is every bit as limiting as making the same claim for any other divine name. Such a Krishna or Brahma. One should find what works best for oneself, but not absolutize or universalize the particular. G

Geronimo

Hey Trevor. I think I remember that song! Wasn't it from the movie Paint Your Wagon? Yes...I think so. I recall meeting a girl whose parents had named her Moriah after the last line in the song. "And they called the wind Moriah."

How very odd and hippie-ish to hang such an awful name around a childs neck! G

Geronimo

Okay, my computer got ahead of me and sent my reply prematurely. Anyway, after leaving WTS, I started challenging all of what I had been taught up to that point, including the name Jehovah. Personally, it always felt like obnoxious overkill how much the dubs insisted on its use. Once I really dug into other belief systems, I stumbled into some Gnostic theories. I don't think ANY man-made school of thought can have the monopoly on the divine, however, some theories have some really good points. Definitely, I don't think Christianity in any form today has much to do with Jesus' life and teachings. Gnostics feel that our planet is governed by an inferior demi-god that gets a kick out of animal sacrifice and bloodshed. The supreme creative force is far beyond all of that. For the record, I do not consider myself a Gnostic, I just think they make some very valid points. Peace to all, Loli

Thank you Loli! Yes, I too realized that to use a sacred name with such familiarity is to de-sacralize it and rob it of it's mystery and it's numinous qualities. As to Gnosticism, it has much to commend it if one remembers one is dealing with sacred Myth, as one is dealing with in all religions.

I agree with your assessment of the total disconnect between "Christianity" and Jesus. What we call Christianity in the Western world was formed by Paul, Augustine, and Jerome (among others of course), not Jesus. Eastern Orthodox Catholicism on the other hand was far more influenced by the Apsotle John, almost completely ignoring the Cosmic Courtroom emphasis of Paul and Augustine in favor of a living connection with the Divine, a connection that results in the Theosis, the Deification, of the believer.

You made this comment as regards the Demiurge and it's love for animal sacrifice, for spilled blood, and the Supreme Reality, the God above God:

The supreme creative force is far beyond all of that.

Amen. G

Jehovah God and God

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