Has anyone read this article..

by earthtone 85 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    I have never found any instructions from the WTS to the elders telling them to discourage individuals from going to the police about child abuse. Have you? Then please bring it forward.

    Perhaps because the WTS craftily kept their instructions to BOE out of print.

    Evidence has been requested, so very well then, here you have it. According to the Australian "Sunday" program which dealt with this it was confirmed by eyewitnesses i.e. elders, that they had been instructed not to report. They were also instructed not to keep notes of that instruction. This is now on the public record. These accusations were thoroughly researched by the Nine Network before putting the program to air. No legal challenge was forthcoming from the WTS (I wonder why?). A Federal Court judge in handling an infamous case here in Australia said in his summing up that he hoped the Director of Public Prosecutions would bring criminal charges against some elders in Bethel for obstruction of justice and for misrepresentation.

    Misrepresentation seems to be something 3W is doing too.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    I really thought the Canadian justice system was better than this.

    Why do you not think that now. Because they did not uphold the inaccurate claims of Vicki Boer. I know it was a terrible thing that happened to her but it was not JWs fault. It was her fathers despite what he was taught by JWs. He ignored the Bible and JW beliefs.

    Thrird witness - are you seriously suggesting that someone who wishes to remain in good standing with the org should go against direction from the elders who have told them not to seek therpeutic help should do so anyway?

    Yes I am. Once the elders are shown that they are wrong they will have to admit it and there is nothing they can do about it. When elders are wrong you are not expected to do what they say.

    You must know what the repercussions of that would be to the person. They would be marked, albeit unofficially, for not accepting the direction of the spirit appointed organization.

    You have surely got to know that what you said here is untrue. A person does not get marked for disagreeing with elders who are obviously wrong as proven by the WT publications. The person is by no means going against 'the direction of the spirit appointed organization' by disregarding inaccurate information from an elder and any elder will tell you that. All a person has to do is look it up if an elder tells them something that is wrong. We are not to blindly follow the elders or the WTS.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    According to the Australian "Sunday" program which dealt with this it was confirmed by eyewitnesses i.e. elders, that they had been instructed not to report.

    According to WT letters and publications and confirmed by eyewitnesses i.e. elders, they have never been instructed by the WTS not to report.

    You need proof not heresay. Vicki Boer case is a case in point. Everyone jumps on the band wagon saying how the elders told her not to report it and not to get professional help. That was a falsehood confirmed by the court.

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    TW,

    I'm looking for the Watchtower policy where it says: "In all cases of possible child abuse, the Elders in the congregation should first contact the local authorities." I know it's there somewhere, must have misplaced it.

    All these naughty apostates who are lying when they say that the POLICY is to first call the watchtower law department, and to be careful what the local Elders should say because of costly law suits, need to SEE that policy to shut them up. As the Watchtower policy on reporting child abuse is the best on the planet, they can't be correct, can they?

    So, if you could help me locate the POLICY where it says: "In all cases of possible child abuse, the Elders in the congregation should first contact the local authorities." I'd very must appreciate it.

    Looking forward to your prompt, and ACURATE response.

    steve

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow
    The two witness rule is actually a very good rule.

    Oh yes, it's a great rule where child abuse cases are concerned. It allows the elders to brush allegations under the carpet if the accused denies the accusation, thus protecting the congregation, and ultimately, the wts' reputation. Anyone with half a brain knows that someone about to rape a child doesn't wait for witnesses.

    Utter crap 3rd w, but then we've come to expect that from you.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    thirdwitness: I decided to do an in depth and honest examination of both without preconceived ideas.

    Do you expect ANYONE, including yourself, to believe you had no preconceptions? What a load of crap.

    Why don't you research this accusation fairly, without preconcieved ideas: The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is guilty, according to their own doctrine, of abuse in the form of "the leaven of the Pharisees." This is evident in rules and traditions that are upheld as requirements of God for Christians that are not based on the Bible. The individual rules are not burdensome, but the total body of ritualistic man-made rules serves to inject the organization, and specifically its policy makers, as a mediator between God and men.

    You can start with the Christian "requirements" for baptism. I even started a thread to discuss it with you, which you ignored completely. Do you ignore this simply because you already know I am right, and that you have no leg to stand on?

    Your preconceptions run throughout every argument you have made in support of any JW choice or action, thirdwitness. To claim you don't have them when they plainly flavor every conclusion you make is ludicrous.

    AuldSoul

  • looking_glass
    looking_glass

    LOL - really 3rd, who are talking at, because it ain't at people who have generations as JWs. The elder book has a section about this and during their school they address it and are told to "keep it w/i the congo" because it is a congregation matter and should be dealt w/ in such a way. The elder book as been posted here on this site before, so feel free to look it up. Also, for family members who are still active JWs and are loyal to the religion, they even admit that in closed doors they are told to encourage a person to keep the matter w/i the congo because it will bring reproach on Jah's name. And you want it in writing, no one here every claimed the WTBTS was stupid, why would they ever put that in writing because it would open the door to civil litigation and liability. Come on, you would have to be damaged in the head if you think they would ever do that or think that we would be swayed by your position of "if its not in writing it is not true".

    And as I stated before, I have had arguments w/ elders about the issue. So as much as you want to say the WTBTS does not support it, their minions do! The people who are carrying out the orders and leading the people in the congo DO tell people to not go to get help, not to go to the police. So are you claiming it is a bunch of rouge elders who are disobeying the WTBTS? If so, why would the Society allow this, considering they strain the gnat on everything else. It is like the solider who knows his commanding officer is a nut but takes a bullet because of loyalty. It is illogical and stupid. It is Warren Jeffs religion all over again. A bunch of people who really believe they are doing god's will when the rest of the civilized world looks on in horror and disbelief.

    And I love how you say "well you should look up what the WTBTS says in print about certain things" ... because we all know that if the elders in a hall decide to make someone's life a living hell they can do it regardless of what is in print. They hing it on "not heeding counsel" "going against Jah's arrangement" "Jezebel influence" and a myriad of other JW catch phrases. You know this as well as anyone else. The elders are the first line of defense for the WTBTS and they rely on them. That being said, if someone goes to an elder to address a matter and the elder handles it, it is considered resolved. It is not until that person tries to take it to the next line in the defense (CO) and then it is investigated further. But how many people have the emotion strength to keep fighting. Especially when the congo and the elders are suppose to be a haven for righteous?

    Lastly, you have used one legal case that was out of Canada. For those here ... we don't know all the facts. 3rd has quoted from portions of the judgment. We have not seen the pleadings, we don't know the counts that were alleged. So if the plaintiff failed to alleged properly, they may have failed to met the burden of proof. But 3rd, I would encourage you to read other cases where the courts have allowed further argument in cases involving the WTBTS regarding their knowledge of sexual abuse w/i the congo and their lack of follow thru regarding same. I believe that w/i the next several years this issue will ultimately go before the US Supreme Court. And when it does we will see how the Justices consider what has transpired and how it has been handled not only by JWs but my all other religious organizations as well.

    As for you 3rd, keep posting, you crack me up sometimes! And I love the fact that you spout the JW party line because it gives me ammo for when my JW relatives come up with the same spoon fed info. Allows me to do independent research and have a response to their claims. So thanks, keep up the good work.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    According to the Australian "Sunday" program which dealt with this it was confirmed by eyewitnesses i.e. elders, that they had been instructed not to report.

    According to WT letters and publications and confirmed by eyewitnesses i.e. elders, they have never been instructed by the WTS not to report.

    You need proof not heresay. Vicki Boer case is a case in point. Everyone jumps on the band wagon saying how the elders told her not to report it and not to get professional help. That was a falsehood confirmed by the court.

    Oh no, not so fast! This was no hearsay. As I wrote, it was eyewitness testimony. It was also corroborated in a court of law - the Federal Court of Australia. As I deliberately wrote, it's a matter of public record.

    Lurkers and other "honest hearted ones" should take that to heart.
  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Coming back to the concept of transperancy, here are the handwritten notes from page 143 of the Elders manual KS91 "Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All the Flock" . Due to the sensitive (possibly illegal) nature of the advice the elders are required to write the dictated notes rather than receive them printed. Why??

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    k.s. p143 addendum

    Child Abuse. Ref Letters: A.B.E Aug 29th 1989 pg 3; LLA 10/10/2002; 28/8/02.

    Legal ramifications.

    In cases of either accusation or allegations of child abuse, immediately contact the society. Do Not talk to anyone else.

    If a brother or a sister confesses to child abuse, ask them not to speak to anyone else till you get back to them, and contact the society immediately.

    In contacting the society simply state ?Matter involving Child Abuse? and the switchboard will put you through.

    *If interviewed by the police, tell them you are not prepared to make a statement until you have sought legal advice. Contact society immediately or a local barrister if necessary.

    *If presented with a search warrant or a subpoena, the last resort is to hand over any material. (Cong file) Find out exactly what is wanted and hand over only that. Preferably seek legal advice first. (stall)

    Read the warrant. Write on envelope ?Ecclesiastical privilege claimed, not to be opened until matter is determined by court.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Since when did child abuse become a spiritual matter rather than a legal one covered by the Caesar's law?

  • avengers
    avengers
    I am therefore very reluctant to rely on her evidence as to other details of the meeting

    That's why the WT elders don't want recording devices during a judicial hearing.
    Now they can just say what they want. I believe Vickie over any JW elder.
    I'll take her stand 100 times over that of any of these evil WT representatives.

    Your posts Third Witless just makes me hate your Borganization more and more.
    You WT reps are empty loud sounding cimballs.

    You speak so many words; all empty without one piece of compassion or love.
    reminds me of your own bible: "And the fool speaks many words".

    Vicky, don't you listen to this crappola. You are right and it's this toilet paper publishing company which is wrong.

    Here's a pic of Witlless and his buddies.

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