Apologists - how should we treat them here?

by AK - Jeff 18 Replies latest jw experiences

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  AK - Jeff

  A point of great controversy at times. Sometimes posters are restricted or even denied privilage of this board.

  Some are quick to condemn such actions, others are quick to applaude it.

  I wanted to comment on a couple of threads locked by moderators that covered this point. Since they were locked I started a new thread.

  I think that although we do not agree with all posters opinions here - they are all to be treated fairly and above board. I have not personally seen any unfairness in this matter in the two years I have been here. I have known of only one poster who was banned [DEFD] and now one who has been restricted to number of posts. [Thirdwitness]. I am sure that there have been many more that I am not aware of - but by and large I see no movement underfoot for apologists and trolls to be mistreated. This is after all a former witness board. The general bias would be non-witness. They come here knowing that don't they. I personally have not ever gone to a pro-witness board just to stir the shit up trouble. Perhaps some have - and perhaps some have been banned. I have heard of several pro witness boards that will not allow anyone who seems to be anti-witness to remain and stir the shit up trouble. How is this board any different than that?

  I must agree with Ozzie's postition that those who support the WTS here have entered a hostile territory. It would be to their own power to answer some of the questions put to them. They all seem to take the same tac - avoid the questions. Some have argued that they are hit with too many questions to answer. That might be true - but if they ever answered a question at all it would show 'due diligence' at least. Most of them never do. They just resort to the same tired tirade and attacks over and over again. Many of the questions are not impossible to answer - just impossible to answer within witness theology and stay a witness.

  With each one that has come along I have personally asked a few succinct questions - kindly for the most part - and asked them again and again requesting an answer. I don't think I have ever gotten a single answer from any of them.

  We are all here to heal. We have all made friends. We do not always agree. We all tend to jump off topic from time to time. We all forgive each other for that.

  But we do not tend to come here, pose questions, hide, pose another question, hide again. Attack a poster. Hide.

  I personally think mods are right on to protect the waters here a little from the sharks. But not so much as to take all the fun out of it.

  I think they [the mods] do a terrific job - and aside from a little rant here -wanted to let them know that. Thanx guys and gals for a job well done.

  Jeff
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  ozziepost

  Firstly we must remember that there is no requirement to any belief system when posting to JWD. The mods don't take actions in support of an anti-WT position or for it, no matter what their personal feelings are and, at times, it can be very tempting!

  The other thing is that it's most unlikely that a 'loyal' dub would be posting here in support of the WTS, (well that's my opinion, anyhow) and that the recent (last night whilst I was asleep) fracas centered around a poster who IMO has shown that he/she has joined JWD just to make trouble; the comments on the Child Abuse forum were simply 'too much' - we have many posters here who've been harshly abused by the WTS and by some members of the WTS and it's necessary for us to be mindful of them.

  The thread last night (downunder time) sought to defend the WTS' position in the Vicki Boer case. We cannot silence them but....if there was one thing that was designed to inflame, it was that. Further, the poster concerned in their brief time on JWD has shown a "hit and run" style. Last night, he/she started a new thread as if on the moral high ground yet completely overlooking a previous thread with questions left unanswered - the thread is hanging there waiting for...???? Evidence had been called for, it had been given, yet the same poster started a new thread with the claim that his/her discussion points are left unanswered, they were merely "hearsay", which as I tried to show was complete nonsense.

  It's my opinion that the poster concerned is here simply to cause trouble. He/she does this by inflaming the board (not too hard at times!) with outrageous claims in support of the WTS knowing that some of these will hit a 'raw nerve' and then the thread will take on a life of its own.

  That's my view anyway and my actions to limit 3W are for those reasons i.e. to stop the hit and run threads and to try to 'encourage' him/her to 'stick to the knitting'.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Dead right Oz.

  Especially the making light of child and sexual abuse - that is just uncalled for and damaging to many who have gone thru it. [IMO those persons might often represent a 'silent minority' due to the pain that they feel] They may not choose to answer and it is good that the mods do so IMO.

  I miss a lot of the threads, so I was not aware of that particular issue.

  Not suggesting that pro-witnesses should be treated any differently of course. Only that they should know coming in that this is a hostile group from their side of the fence. Rightly so too -

  Anyway - top o' the day to ya' downunder. Twilight has slipped in here.

  Jeff
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  Forscher

  Personally, I don't mind them showing up as long as they behave themselves and stay away from the name calling.
  
  But then, I ask the same of everybody else as well, though not always with success. The mindless ones serve a useful pupose by reminding us what and why we left and what we used to be like. The intelligent ones provide us an opportunity to sharpen our knowledge and skills. I'd like to see Furuli show up. I think that if we let LeoLaia and Narkissos exchange thoughts with him and we stayed out of the way, we would all learn something useful. Leo holds a doctorate in linguistics and Furuli may now have his doctorate in linguistics as well. That would be a discussion to watch if it ever took place!
  
  As for those apologists who are rude and ugly, I don't have a real problem with booting them since they add nothing to the discussion and can find folks elswhere who are into that sort of thing. In the end, Its up to Simon. This forum is his baby and he has the right to make those decisions and I respect his right to do so. After all, I am just a guest here like anybody else!
  
  Forscher
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  Forscher

  the comments on the Child Abuse forum were simply 'too much' - we have many posters here who've been harshly abused by the WTS and by some members of the WTS and it's necessary for us to be mindful of them.

  
  
  I read that loud and clear Ozzie! My wife was molested by two different men as an early teen. Both of them were Witness. After reading the thread you mentioned, I shudder to think what her reaction would've been if she were a poster here and read that thread (rest assured I wasn't stupid enough to read it to her). Youd've probably had to ban her temporarily to cool her down!!!
  
  Forscher
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  juni

  I feel that's reasonable Ozzie.

  Juni
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  under_believer

  With polite respect. Don't lower yourself. Be dignified.
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  lovelylil

  I think Ozzie was being reasonable.

  I will say this because I have had this happen to me before, there are some on the board that resort to name calling and cursing at others or trying to insinuate that someone is still brainwashed or plain stupid for believing what they do.

  That is not right, we are all adults here. Some are still christian, some agnostic, some athiest, some other beliefs. And all these people of varying opinions is what makes this board so great.

  And usually the debates although strong do not get to throwing low blows. But occasionally some forget they are adults on a public forum and act worse than spoiled brats fighting in the school yard. And this is the one thing I hate - when the conversation resorts to personal attacks. And it is not right, no one should be treated this way for having an opposing view. Not even JW opologists. Lilly
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  looking_glass

  FEED THEM TO THE LIONS!!!!

  Sorry, I was distracted by shiny objects ... what were we discussing again?
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  Arthur

  Some have argued that they are hit with too many questions to answer.

  This is one argument where I do agree with thirdwitness. In debates between thirdwitness and AlanF, I have noticed several other posters jump in with questions that are related to the topic, but not necesarilly relevant. In all fairness, I wouldn't expect thirdwitness to have to answer questions from 15 different posters all at once. I would rather see him focus on answering the questions that AlanF raises.

  I think that JW apologists should have the same posting priveleges that the rest of us do (provided that they don't break the rules). Where else could a JW lurker go to see a debate between a JW lackey, and an apostate? These debates are excellent for revealing the fallacies of many JW doctrines.

  As far as other apologists are concerned, I do agree that they should be given the freedom to express their views. I think that it adds a wonderful flavor to the mix. It is thoroughly enjoyable to see a sanctimonious JW apologist get knocked off of their high horse in a discussion; provided that posters do not resort to nasty personal attacks or name calling.