Revelation 20 Question - Nark, Leolaia, Alan, Blondie, Drew, Others

by rassillon 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  rassillon

  Hello all,

  I have been reading the bible with a new perspective for some time, I guess I identify with Drew S from a lot of his comments sound like what I think. I have been thinking about what I read without the WT influence and I would like to get ya'll's input on this scripture.

  Revelation 20 1-6

  To me it seems to indicate that Satan will be bound "first" THEN the ressurection of those to rule with Christ for a thousand years.

  ALSO

  It seems to indicate that those that rule will be ones actually killed for their beliefs.

  Now these thoughts are not comprehensive of the bible as a whole but I thought I would get your thoughts on this.

  Thanks,

  -r
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  Hellrider

  It seems to indicate that those that rule will be ones actually killed for their beliefs

  I agree.
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  V

  NWT

  (Revelation 20:1-6) . . .And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.

  4 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
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  LittleToe

  You need to broaden out your reading to consider the amillenial view.

  Not everyone believes in a literal 1000 years...
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  AuldSoul

  rassillon,

  I agree that is what the verses say, but of course you realize that the book was given in signs and symbols that must be interpreted. You see, the Scriptures have a key to Revelation by which a group of men who would appear 2,000 years after its writing would be inspired guided by the Holy Ghost holy spirit to interpret understand the meaning of the signs and symbols. And, of course, since they got it wrong many times it is obvious that the holy spirit was not at fault but that their own anxious anticipation of the fulfillment of events prevented the correct understanding.

  But, the undeniable fact remains that things are working out exactly as the Revelation declared. We know this because after something happens everything in Revelation can be reinterpreted to match it "perfectly". We can have complete confidence that the Governing Body has the correct understanding this time because they have failed to get anything right thus far. Simply by the rule of probabilities, they are overdue to be correct about something. That is why I am still an active JW.

  I smile, but that last is the fear that basically holds so many JWs captive: "What if they are right, this time?" To twist their own analogy around a bit, if your house burned down and your neighbor walked up and told you not to worry about it, that relief workers were coming in from a neighboring state to fix the mess. Soon all the rubble would be cleared and they would build you a new house. Would you be comforted at all if you knew your neighbor had lied to you (or "had been mistaken") about every single thing he had told you since you first met him? Obviously not. You would not sit around waiting for his prophecy to come true.

  The WTS tries to claim that God is promising to do what they have actually promised He would do several times in the past. It should have long since been done, if God was using them at all. The fact that they have repeatedly offered false hopes to millions should be sufficient cause to completely ignore any promise they make in God's name.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  Narkissos

  I agree that the text itself is quite simple, and I think rassillon read it correctly -- the only debatable point imo is whether "martyrs" are to be understood strictly (only the individuals who were effectively killed for their faith) or more broadly (faithful Christians, by the author's definition, as belonging to a collectively persecuted group).

  The real problems (and opportunities!) in interpretation arise for those who read Revelation (and a number of "Bible prophecies") centuries later and assume that those texts must somehow "come true," preferably in their own lifetime. Then something else than the "plain meaning" must be found, and easily is.
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  Leolaia

  rassilion....You may enjoy my thread that covers these topics:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/96705/1.ashx

  Not only are those who rule as king-priests those who had been martyred (cf. the "great crowd" of Christians who have gone through the great tribulation, i.e. undergone martyrdom, are in heaven because they have died), but the logic of this section of Revelation evidences a dualism between the followers of Christ and the followers of the Beast -- all those who follow the Beast bear his mark on their forehead and/or hand, those who belong to Christ bear his mark on their forehead, and most importantly, those who refuse the Beast's mark (i.e. all those who remain loyal to Christ) are put to death by the Beast. And conversely, all those who bear the Beast's mark (everyone great and small, slave or free, rich and poor) are put to death by the one "faithful and true" and his legions.
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  avengers

  And if nobody, nobody and nobody knows what it all means, then I have the solution!!

  ---We'll just ask the Governing Body.---

  HUH??
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  JeffT

  I've been going to a mainstream church since getting out in 1989. I rarely hear Revelation mentioned at all. I think most of us regard it as 1) obscure and 2) mostly code for things that were going on at the time, notably Roman persecution.
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  stevenyc

  Maybe the writer of Revelation was writing metaphorically about contemporary issues. Maybe, if he had written in a literal way, he would have been killed. For me this is the easiest explanation.

  That or the guy was tripping his head off or interestingly schizophrenic.

  steve