omg i am totally floored

by akafreelife 92 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  AuldSoul

  Jah333,

  You seem to operate under the misaprehension that statements equates to discussion. That is not the case.

  A statement is simply a single declaration or remark. It may or may not be true. You have made MANY statements, in the sense of declaring things that may or may not be true.

  A discussion is a consideration of a topic in an open and usually informal debate. That is what the forum is designed for. Not for declarations, rather, for discussion.

  For instance, I am well aware that the topic is the Illuminati. You seem determined to shift the focus to the masons, when their influence on JWs was established and remains unchallenged (as far as I can tell) by anyone posting to this thread. I am trying to get you to substantiate the declaration you made regarding the influence of the Illuminati on the world's religions. Substantiate means provide support for. You have not done so.

  Instead, you declare that the Illuminati should be automatically regarded as influential simply because Freemasonry was influential. Please stop declaring and begin discussing.

  Where is your evidence of the existence of the Illuminati? Once presented, where is your evidence of influence from the Illuminati on ANY of the world's religions? Once presented, where is your evidence of influence from the Illuminati on ALL the world's religions?

  Just so you know, blogs do not count as discussion. In fact, trying to use a blog as a replacement for discussion is likely to get your privileges curtailed by a Forum Assistant.

  AuldSoul
• 

  Jah333

  "

  You seem determined to shift the focus to the masons

  "

  Pointing out the 33 connection. All Illuminati are automatically 33rd degree masons.

  

  "

  Just so you know, blogs do not count as discussion. In fact, trying to use a blog as a replacement for discussion is likely to get your privileges curtailed by a Forum Assistant.

  "

  Thanks for informing me, I guess, I write concisely and with illuminated insight.

  As a non-mason but illuminated one, my view point on this discussion is simple, I was illuminated last year, the blogs included have the bones of my personal Revelation... I'm Fr33 of the Watchtower... in fact free of all organised religions...
• 

  AuldSoul

  An unsourced graphical depiction of an idea is neither evidence of the existence of the Illuminati, nor evidence of its influence on religion, nor evidence of its influence on Jehovah's Witnesses/the Watchtower Society.

  Now, please, focus. I am wanting you to substantiate your declarations. Your graphic is nothing more than a declaration in picture form. It is valueless, it means nothing, it has no significance whatsoever as evidence of the correctness of your declarations.

  Discussion, please. Support your claims.

  AuldSoul
• 

  skyking

  I do not think either side is going to be able to prove anything here. You can't prove a lot of things we as ordinary people assume is correct. For example no-one can prove the the Sun is burning helium and hydrogen gas. Many people assume this is true and it might be but, many believe the sun is electric and not burning helium or hydrogen.

  People look at evidence too support things, they do not have 100% proof most of the time to establish an idea. When you have enough evidence you make an assumption. This is what many people do with the ILLIMIUTY they only assume they exist, No-one has proof for it and no=-one has proof against it only fractal evidence to make an assumption one way or the other.

  If people want to look at a puff of smoke and see people faces in the PUFF of smoke that is OK. I see a coincidence not at grand conspiracy that the faces mean something. To some people they see the work of the Devil, there are many threads on the internet talking about this. Yes I see the faces too but I don;t see the Devils work.

  I personally don;t believe in the number 3 but appreciated looking at the evidence but right now I see nothing to sway me but I am fascinated by what I have read here tonight.
• 

  Jah333

  "

  An unsourced graphical depiction of an idea is neither evidence of the existence of the Illuminati, nor evidence of its influence on religion, nor evidence of its influence on Jehovah's Witnesses/the Watchtower Society.

  "

  OK, starting with the 555 point

  Jehovah at the 5th book, 5th Chapter etc... and the links numerologically to Masonic Works that also have 555 embedded as measurements, as for instance the Washington monument are significant links to a secret numerlogical communication.

  The New Boeing A380 built to carry 555 passengers is also built by skilled men (and women) of various technical and engineering guilds.

  All members of the Mason's and Illuminati are given numbers and ranks (titles).

  The highest level of membership is the 33rd degree.

  Linking the JW's to the Illuminati is probably directly very difficult. I have to agree with Satanus, there are no illuminati actually in the governing body...

  However, the numerological connections to the power structure of other secret sects is outstanding. If the WTBTS hadn't been in bed with the United Nations, I would "still" have no reason to suspect the WTBTS of Masonic or Illuminati influence. Other than the role of the Illuminati is mostly Social Engineering with the use of fear and scare tactics over other less "educated" and enlightened humans.

  The Watchtower Sect is no different from many of the power controls the Illuminati use over us. For instance; fnords. Fighting words placed in news media, politics, relgions etc, are used to keep control over the masses. (www.dictionary.com = fnords).

  "

  Now, please, focus. I am wanting you to substantiate your declarations. Your graphic is nothing more than a declaration in picture form. It is valueless, it means nothing, it has no significance whatsoever as evidence of the correctness of your declarations.

  "

  OK, I'm game, I've no ax to grind with anyone here, just revealing as much truth to get anyone else out of the hol e I was once in, in that mind bending relgion.

  "

  Discussion, please. Support your claims.

  "

  Fair enough... I come from a line of Scottish Royal Arch Masons... but am not a mason by indoctrination or illuminated by organisation.

  I have many friends and family who are Masons. I've never met anyone who ever admitted to being illuminati, however, I do know after many months of research that all 33rd degree Masons are illuminated.

  The 33rd degree can not be confired by man, it's a very personal experience...

  I did write an entire blog about it...

  The simple fact is, numbers are the core of reality, and are used in "communications" between many of the "secret" societies. Mason's and Illuminati are no exception (well as ya know...)

  My own belief that the JW's are involved in the Masonic influence or at least the JW bible was in part put together by men who counted and measured things very carefully.

  The fact that the Masonic "fraternity" uses Jehovah as a name as much , as the Witnesses do (I've had this personally verified by many of my masonic friends)...

  Then putting the 5th book of the bible to the 5th chapter, 5th verse 5th word...

  saw the direct connection with some seriously careful planning...

  Charles Taze Tomb for instance...
• 

  AuldSoul

  skyking: No-one has proof for it and no=-one has proof against it only fractal evidence to make an assumption one way or the other.

  You cannot prove a negative. No one can.

  However, Jah333 has made some positive declarations about some very far-fetched things that he refuses to prove.

  Showing a chart that "demonstrates" the hierarchy of the Illuminati does not prove the existence of the Illuminati anymore than my 8-year-old niece drawing a picture of a pixie proves the existence of pixies. An overly active imagination and the ability to illustrate it doesn't equate to evidence. Not 100% or even 1%. "Establishing" an idea requires evidence producing near certainty. Conceiving an idea doesn't require any evidence at all.

  So far, all Jah333 has convinced me of is that he has some very strongly held and very strongly stated concepts (ideas) that he refuses to support with evidence. If he has as much evidence of the remainder of his claims as he has for the claim regarding the number of times Jehovah is written in the NWT New Testament then I believe we are nearing 0% evidence in favor of his claims.

  If one watches for the recurrence of and ascribes significance to ANY number, they will find it everywhere they look. They will even change inconvenient facts so that the facts fit their convictions. It is one of the principle characteristics of clinically diagnosed Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Fixation on a specific number and a penchant for finding significance in that number whenever the OCD sufferer sees it. Obsessing over measurements, angles, ordering of things, grouping things, etc.

  But you fail to mention that it's written 8361 times in total in the NWT...

  The person who wrote this likely felt triumphant because "there is a 3 in it." It is clear to everyone else who has a basic comprehension of our numerical system that there is no 3 in that number. There is a 300 in that number, but there is no 3.

  All things measured... Perfectly...

  This is either someone havnig fun with us, or this is someone who either has diagnosable OCD, or is well along the road toward OCD.

  All of our brains seek patterns, seek order, seek to rationalize surroundings and stimuli. But, the reality is that the stimuli we are presented is chaotic. Any order we ascribe to it is relative to our own particular perspective.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  AuldSoul

  All members of the Mason's and Illuminati are given numbers and ranks (titles).

  To which I reply, there are Freemasons, there is ample proof of their existence, there is ample proof of their influence, there is no need to continue bringing them up.

  There are not Illuminati. You keep doing that, asserting without proof the existence of Illuminati, and tying them to Freemasons who DO exist. Please, restrict yourself to discussion of the question I asked if you are at all capable of doing so.

  You did not write an entire blog on the evidences of Illuminati, and even if you had it would carry no weight in this discussion as I am under no obligation to read your blog or to credit it as valid if I did read it. Just as you were under no obligation to read or credit my blog on MySpace.com. In any case, your blog is not a substitute for discussion here.

  Each of the many times you have referenced "Illuminati" your reference assumes the existence of the Illuminati. That is completely illogical, and I will continue to call you on it each time you do it. In the post to which I am now responding, you did so seven times. Please present your evidence that THE ILLUMINATI exists, if you have any evidence to that effect.

  AuldSoul
• 

  Jah333

  To answer this Q 1st;

  "

  Each of the many times you have referenced "Illuminati" your reference assumes the existence of the Illuminati. That is completely illogical, and I will continue to call you on it each time you do it. In the post to which I am now responding, you did so seven times. Please present your evidence that THE ILLUMINATI exists, if you have any evidence to that effect.

  "

  Going to the dictionary to make sure we have a mutual understanding of the word; 'illuminati'

  ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=illuminati&x=0&y=0 )

  results for: illuminati

  1.	persons possessing, or claiming to possess, superior enlightenment.

  2.

  ( initial capital letter ) a name given to different religious societies or sects because of their claim to superior enlightenment. Special enlightenment. for instance, in my blog regarding 333, I found that I had a special enlightenment with the UN issue. Counting 1335 days from 9/11 I arrived at May 8th 2005, when I found the document (http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf) on the UN website. I wrote about the entire experience on this very website; http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/90986/1.ashx I live in St Christopher in the Caribbean. Christ means to be anointed. My particular enlightenment is to do with Anointing: Kings were anointed with kaneh bos OIL in Bible times: http://www.thc-ministry.org/jesus.htm Soo, since last year, I've come to understand that many people are naturally illuminated in many fields, (Dhali Lama for instance). George W Bush is of the illuminati as a Skull and Bones man, I can only prove his membership with his own 322 skull logo. For the Watchtower, there is no way of proving that the illuminati or illuminated ones are on board. But as I said before, I agree with Satanus, there are no specially illuminated ones in the WTBTS governing body. In fact I'd say the opposite is true... Also to add, that most certainly in the begining, the founding members of the WTBTS may well have been illuminated and of the anointed. However since those times, the illuminated ones have long since gone. To be illuminated, the illuminatated one needs to have some attribute that makes them shine amongst men, whether it's leadership, insight etc... but in the word dictionary sense, Specially religiously enlightened men (illuminati) in the Governing body as light bearers is a pretty hard stretch. However I do know and believe that many many masons find compatable worship in the WTBTS. The only reason this is a valid link and relevant, is the secret fraternity influence amongst elders and the higher ranking members of the governing body... As to wether illuminati or to use the word in it's true context "illuminated ones exist, yes they do, I'm "living" proof.
• 

  Twitch

  AuldSoul

  :-)
• 

  Jah333

  "

  All of our brains seek patterns, seek order, seek to rationalize surroundings and stimuli. But, the reality is that the stimuli we are presented is chaotic. Any order we ascribe to it is relative to our own particular perspective.

  "

  'This is the point I'm establishing, people with higher IQ's can see patterns more easily in the chaos. Illuminated ones typically are of this type (GWBush being the exception as pointed out above (his IQ is 33 not a 133).

  Order out of Chaos is a Masonic Symbol;

  

  The double headed eagle and the 33 above.

  This Masonic symbol seeks to organize the "Everyday" data into meaningful universal communications...

  Your very question is answered by the image above, YES we all seek to see patterns in the Chaos around us. The Question has to be are there patterns? When it comes to 33 yes there are, as we have been discussing for a while now.

  Alexander the Great for instance; 333 BCE to 323 BCE

  Jesus at 33AD

  etc etc etc...

  The bible or the men who where "inspired" to put the bible together where giving clues as to the Measurements around us.

  Included in the Bible is a book of "numbers"

  Also the reccomendation that we measure the temple and it's "Worship" for ourselves... This is especially true with the "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society". Carefully measuring all that they do... will reveal the order and the TRUTH in the chaos.

  In Revelation 11, we are instructed to Get up and Measure...!

  "

  11

  And a reed like a rod was given me as he said: "Get up and measure the temple [sanctuary] of God and the altar and those worshiping in it.
  

  "

  As Jesus said, the TRUTH will set you free

  John 8:31 - 33

  "

  31

  And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: "If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, 32 and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free." 33 They replied to him: "We are Abraham?s offspring and never have we been slaves to anybody. How is it you say, YOU will become free?

  "

  Abrahams offspring (Israel) recently launched a ~33 day war against "Hizbollah" (holy warriors) in Lebanon...

  Signalling and communications through the chaotic news media... spot the "order" in the chaos and measure it...