by Elsewhere 43 Replies latest jw friends
Only one thing remains to trump all other inventions and discoveries - contact with alliens from another dimension/planet/time.
No, only time travel itself, would be good enough. The WTS has already speculated that there are not other lifes on other planets.
Anyway, on THIS subject, the internet has brought ex-JW's together. That alone could be the courage that more JW's need to leave.
A little while ago on this thread, I mentioned my "conversations" with a gal who had been studying with JWs. She had decided to stop. She was since then visited at work by the two JWs and she was told the same old-same-old that "exJWs are disgruntled and have an axe to grind, yadayada".
They had convinced her to keep studying with all the usual nonsense and I wrote back and told her I wished her well no matter what decision she made, but that "we" had nothing to hide and nothing to gain by lying about our ordeals with the WTS! THEY were the ones who were trying to keep a lid on all the negative "truth s"about their organization!
I also told her that IF she became a JW and had doubts...that in trying to leave, she would face complications and consequences...it was not an easy task. I figured she was vulnerable and the JWs had "ganged up" on her and made her uncomfortable, so she would most likely concede and continue her "study".
I was surprised all over again....this is what she wrote:
Once again, you have a way of saying things that always put things into perspective for me. I must be honest, I feel like you gave me a little spiritaul kick in the rear! Thanks...I needed that!!
The most amazing thing about my conversation this morning was the fact that she knew little to nothing about Ray Franz. How is it that a life-long Jehovah's Witness has no knowledge that a member of the Governing Body for 9 years has left. Not only has he left the governing body, he's left the organization all together!
I know I am not experiencing a temporary lapse of judgment nor am I open to clarification, I am resolute in the fact that the WTS is not Gods true messenger, and this is evident by the WTS own quote:
"Jehovah God is the grand identifier of his true messengers. He identifies them by making the messages he delivers through them come true. Jehovah is also the great exposer of false messengers. How does he expose them? He frustrates their signs and predictions. In this way he shows that they are self appointed prognosticators, whose messages really spring from their own false reasoning-yes, their foolish, fleshly thinking!"
The WTS messages have not come true and He has frustrated their signs and predictions time and time again.
Do I think the WTS has it all wrong, no I don’t, but the wrong is VERY wrong, wrong enough for it not to be right for me.
Thank you again for your wise words!
Love & gratitude,
KXXXXX
Folks-----Ain't the internet wunnerful!!!!!
hugs,
Annie
I wish I could give you all better and more encouraging news on how the internet is a threat to the WTS but most of JW'S are very happy in the organization.
I'm speaking from what I see in the congr. still attending, for example last night they announced 2 new pioneer and 20 aux pioneers for the month of sept. and the majority have no idea about the internet and apostate and what's going on with the doctrines and scandals such as child abuse, UN, 607/1914, Malawi/Mexico.
They are blindly, happy serving Jehovah but in many i do see lack of zeal for the"truth".
I beleive the next generation of young ones will definetely find out about the Watchtower and move on, we have already seen it for 2 decades and it will get worse but for the majority they are happily serving the Watchtower.
I wish I could agree with all these nice thoughts but I don't see the facts to support it. I believe that the internet is draining some of the
leadership and those Witnesses left who can actually think but most are too blind to see or care. The Society has done their job well
in keeping these folks willingly ignorant. The Society's worries about the internet are mostly about porn or chatrooms, not apostacy.
Here's my problem: if you look at the world wide rate of publisher growth reported for the past 20 years, it looks consistent in slowly dropping.
I don't see "the internet effect" in the graph as any acceleration while it became popular during that period. On the other hand, the drop
in baptisms might need a look.
metatron
As I have already pointed out, the Internet is a bigger threat to the apostate movement than to the Witnesses.
Wise up.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/100638/1.ashx
Slim
if you look at the world wide rate of publisher growth reported for the past 20 years, it looks consistent in slowly dropping.I don't see "the internet effect" in the graph as any acceleration while it became popular during that period.
I'm not so sure about that. In the late '80s there were a little over 3,000,000 in the org, by 2002, that number DOUBLED to 6,000,000. That was in a 14 year peiod, or so. In the last 4 years, the org has not seen growth at anything close to that rate. In fact, the growth from 5-6 mil was much slower than the 3-5 between 1988 and 1995, or so.
j
Cute reminder slimboyfat. Here's the first post on that thread as an answer to the Internet being the enemy of apostates:
Your comment shows how completely you are out of touch with reality!!! Get your head out of the sand...what planet do you live on???
Otherwise, there is very little to be said of that thought, but a little, nonetheless.
Most doubters get nowhere with the majority of JW they speak to.
The internet will allow JW to access information that nobody knows they are accessing
(just like pornography).
I have no doubt that JW will look at internet anti-JW sites. Many won't look, but will
be frustrated by the society dealing with the problem of lack of growth. When the
numbers really go down, questions will really be asked.
slimboyfat,
You pointed out your hypothesis along those lines, but I felt Leolaia did an excellent job of answering one of your linchpin arguments in such a way as to remove the argument from consideration. Or at least she placed in a file marked "Jury Still Out".
You reasoned (without any substance in basis) that rather sudden localized defections were somehow more effective than decentralized and rather slower paced defections. Whereas, I believe it is easier for the conscious mind of a JW to excise an entire congregation at a single slice (since a congregation is an impersonal entity and likely not closely connected to the active JW) than for the conscious mind to rationalize the very many decentralized defections that are brewing, the large numbers of elders stepping down, the small numbers of brothers stepping up to fill ministerial servant and elder needs.
The other reality you ignored in your analysis is that a brash, noisy apostate is much more easily dismissed by JWs and non-JWs alike. But the Internet has allowed for many to vent to a sufficient degree that they do not become brash, noisy apostates. You seem to think that is a limiting factor, but I believe you have misunderstood the eventual impact. Through casual cnoversations, I have had occasion to arm at least five non-JWs with stronger reasoning points than I could have dreamt up one year ago, for use with their JW family members. I didn't do that here, this was in real life, in casual conversations with people I have met. Non-JW relatives of JWs have a much better chance of reaching active JWs with these reasoning points than any ex-JW has.
Really, the venting slowly era of apostasy (versus quick release of steam and expelled) has only just begun its life. The Internet has only had greater than 75% US market saturation for 4 years. Of that ISP saturation point, high-speed ISPs have only had greater than 20% market saturation for two years. Forming conclusions on the impacts of this brand new "slow-perk" version of apostasy based on the lack or presence of associated dramaticism is, in my opinion, somewhat myopic of you.
Also, technology is changing quickly. The capacity of the current Internet (when it comes to getting aggregated topical information with a high degree of relevance) will be dwarfed by its capacity in five years time. The clock is ticking on all cults that try to keep one foot in the waking world. It is just a matter of time.
The hot water is percolating right now. This organization has already gone fairly static and stagnant, and soon their organizational witch hazel brew will be ready for them to drink.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
well said AS. The opening article to this topic stressed the fact that the Internet's real impact is yet to be seen.
I am just glad I found you guys before the whole downfall of the WTS.
Once you expose the man behind the curtain totally, there really isn't anymore
reason to keep talking about it.
If someone finds this outlet after they dissolve the WTS, you guys will be be saying
"See, we were right." but everyone would not have great debates, because
the borg is gone. The best topic will be, "So where were you when they resigned?"
THAT'S MY DREAM.
