I really need some help and clariety on a situation I am involved in with a friend who is JW. I am not JW, I am a female lesbian. I have made a friend threw work who is JW. I mete her on travel and spent 12 weeks training with her for my job. She is aware of my sexuality issues and I am aware of JW stance on homosexuality. However she told me that everyone stands on thier own before Jeovaha and it is not her place to judge me. This basic understanding has allowed us to have a wonderful friendship. I clearly understand topics that would be inappropriate and we simply do not discuss them. I have gotten to know her family, 2 adopted children and husband. I have spent time with all of them, sharing meals ect... Since I live 4 hours away, and am looking to relocate to the area she is in, she opened up her home to me, and I have spent nights. The last time I came to visit her husband informed her that she could no longer associate with me, that I was an inappropriate association. Her husband has been having severe emotional issues and is not currently attending meetings ect...She is very upset and confided in me that whenever she makes friends he finds a reason not to like them, whether they are JW or not. Is it true that a husbands word regardless is the authority and women must be submissive? Are JW's not allowed to have personal associations outside of the hall?Up to this point everything has been fine and knowing them has broken many steriotypes I assumed about JW. I saw them in this context as loving, tolerant and understanding people. I need help and some feedback as to what to do.......
I have a question...
by brunhilda40 12 Replies latest jw friends
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Dune
I know its kind of hard but its probably best to let go.
Jehovah's Witnesses really arent allowed to have friends outside of their organization. Unless it deals with bible studies, Jehovah's witnesses are told not to associate too closely to those who are not.
She probably really did enjoy your company, but thats how it is with in the religion.
o yeah, this is an ex-jehovahs witness site in case you had'nt noticed.
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OnTheWayOut
And in that religion, the husband can say you are a bad associate, that she should not see you nor allow you in the home.
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drew sagan
JWs are encouraged to not associate with anybody who is not a believer. The only 'legal' way is if they spend it trying to convert others to their faith.
From what you have written it seems that your friend is in a very difficult situation and is reaching out for anybody to be her friend. JWs usually don't look for friends outside the hall unless they have none their, which is a good possiblity with the JW you know.
I have to agree with the posters above me that state your friendship with this woman will be lost (from either you letting it go, or her husband forcing it). But I will add one bit of encouragement for you.
Most of us on this board have struggled (sometimes for years) of being slaves to the Watchtower organization. It was the little things in life during this time peroid that really helped us to overcome the distortions and lies we where lead to believe. I'm sure you have been a light to this JW friend of yours, a light she will not soon forget.
On a side note you might also have the chance to get her thinking critically about the organization, but this is very unlikely. Some people I know have agreed to study with the Witnesses as a way in order to help them out of the organization. I know one person who used this opportunity to present some books to their 'bible study conductor' (like Crisis of Conscience). The end results where good, but it was a ton of work. Something that would require true dedication on your part.
In the end I though I agree that letting go might be the best option but I'm not in your situation and don't know all the factors. -
freetosee
Brunhilda,
Yes, as a JW you are not to have "worldly people" (non-jws) as friends. Only if you are considered an interested person who studies their teaching with them and are making progress in becoming one of JW, will you be considered as appropriate association. Especially you being homosexual presents a threat to them.
JW’s go preaching publicly from house to house, but as you can see it is a closed secretive society. There are many wonderful people among them and I am sure your friend is one of them.
You are also right about the male headship to which women have to be submissive. Although, I do worry about your friend telling you that her husband is against her having any friends, even among the JW’s. This is unusual, also her looking to you (homosexual non-jw) as a friend and confiding in you. This tells me that anyone having a close friendship with her is bound to find out something that should be kept a secret.
Personally I think if she really is your friend and a good person you should fight for her. Or at least keep contact via email for example. As mentioned, it is not going to be easy.
May I ask you about your observations? How did her husband treat you? Was she different without him? How would you describe the adopted children? How was their relationship with their father?
I hope you don’t mind me asking. It is just that him not allowing her to have JW friends, yet having adoptive children, is alarming.
freetosee
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Ingenuous
These are from JW publications: Watchtower, Awake!, and an internal training newsletter, Our Kingdom Ministry
On subjection to husbands:
Watchtower - November 1, 2003 p.18 - Faithful Christian Women—Precious Worshipers of God
The
Beauty of Subjection
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Jehovah created the woman as a complement of the man. (Genesis 2:18) Hence, the wife’s subjection to her husband in no way implies inferiority. Rather, it dignifies a woman, allowing her to use her many gifts and talents in harmony with God’s will. Proverbs chapter 31 describes the broad range of activities of a capable wife in ancient Israel. She helped the needy, planted vineyards, and purchased land. Yes, "in her the heart of her owner . . . put trust, and there [was] no gain lacking."—Verses 11, 16, 20.20
A modest, God-fearing woman does not ambitiously promote herself or compete with her husband. (Proverbs 16:18) She does not pursue self-fulfillment primarily through secular pursuits but uses her God-given gifts mainly to serve others—her family, fellow Christians, neighbors, and above all, Jehovah. ..Watchtower - March 15, 2002 , p.11 par.12 - Is Christ’s Leadership Real to You?
The wife, for her part, is to be in subjection to her husband. However, if she is affected by the spirit of the world, this may begin to undermine her view of the headship principle, and the idea of being in subjection to a man would not appeal to her. The Scriptures do not suggest that the man should be domineering, but they do require that wives be in subjection to their husbands. (Ephesians 5:24) The Bible also holds the husband or father accountable, and when its counsel is applied, this contributes to peace and order in the family.—Philippians 2:5
Watchtower - June 15, 2000, p. - 15 - Honor the Ones Given Authority Over You
Should wives with believing husbands give them any less honor than wives with unbelieving mates give theirs? What if you do not agree with your husband on some matter? Jesus gave some advice that can be applied in a general way here: "If someone under authority impresses you into service for a mile, go with him two miles." (Matthew 5:41) Do you honor your husband by going along with his wishes?
On friendship (a.k.a., "association") with non-JWs:
Watchtower - April 15, 1993, p.15-16 pars.7-9 - Youths—What Are You Pursuing?
Paul thus cautioned Timothy that even among fellow Christians there might have been ‘vessels lacking honor’—individuals who did not conduct themselves aright. Now if association with certain anointed Christians could have been harmful for Timothy, how much more so would association with worldlings be damaging to a Christian youth today! (1 Corinthians 15:33) This does not mean giving your schoolmates the cold shoulder. But you should take care not to get overly involved with them, even if that makes you appear to be a loner at times. This can be very difficult. Says one Brazilian girl: "It is hard. I am always being invited by my schoolmates to go to parties and places that are improper for Christian youths. They say: ‘What! You’re not going? You’re crazy!’"
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Some worldly youths may seem nice simply because they do not smoke, use bad language, or engage in immoral sex. If they are not pursuing righteousness, though, their fleshly thinking and attitudes can easily rub off on you. Besides, how much could you have in common with unbelievers? (2 Corinthians 6:14-16) Why, the spiritual values you hold dear are mere "foolishness" to them! (1 Corinthians 2:14) Could you maintain their friendship without compromising your principles?9
So keep clear of unwholesome associates. Limit your association to spiritually minded Christians who really love Jehovah. Be careful even of youths in the congregation who are negative or critical. As you grow spiritually, your taste in friends will likely change. Says one teenage Witness girl: "I have been making new friends in different congregations. It has made me realize how unnecessary worldly friends are.""Our Kingdom Ministry" - June, 1989, pp. 1,2
One cannot walk with God while running in association with those of the wicked and sick society that approves of everything that God abhors. The Bible warns: "Bad associations spoil useful habits." (1 Cor. 15:33) Some in the congregation may be inclined to invite worldly acquaintances and unbelieving relatives who have no interest in the truth to social gatherings, thinking that this will encourage them to accept the truth. However, is this wise and in harmony with the Scriptures?
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We have been counseled to be cautious in our dealings with men of the nations, unbelievers, and ordinary persons. (See the November 15, 1988, issue of TheWatchtower, pages 15-16.) Why should we have unnecessary social contact with people who still pursue worldly ways and who have not become worshipers of Jehovah? (2 Cor. 6:14, 15) Some who are negligent spiritually may seek out others who also hold on to worldly thinking and ways instead of seeking association with mature Christians who could help them become strong in the faith. They fail to appreciate that attendance at social gatherings with worldly, unprincipled people can weaken their faith and corrupt them.—Compare 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15. -
bronzefist
brunhilda 40
I would suggest to try to continue the friendship if your friend is willing as long as it is away from her home. Her husband is being domineering. Your JW friend may try to draw you into the religion so be aware of that. On the other hand your friendship might be something that will help her more than you realize.
brzfst
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TheKings
don't give her up without a fight and see if she starts to fight for herself.
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MsMcDucket
Friends are hard to find. She has let you into her home, which shows that she likes you a lot. I'd just step lightly in this situation and let her know that you will be there if she needs you.
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AK - Jeff
Certainly, Jehovah's witnesses are not known as 'tolerant' to anyone's imagination. This Jw befriending someone who is not of her religion, and particularly one who is gay [no offense intended], is extremely unusual.
I would say she had acted out of 'JW character', but perhaps is trying to be more tolerant on a personal level, which is commendable given her situation. The husband is considered to be the 'head of house' and will exercise that authority in most of the Jw families. Your spending time at the house may have triggered extreme guilt in the husband, and forced him to comply with the dictates of the religion in order to protect his position, or hoped for position within the congregation [and among witnesses his reputation would be ruined for allowing a gay person to sleep under his roof].
I would fight for this friend. Real friends are a precious commodity. But be aware that the relationship may have to be covert to some extent. Perhaps the jw woman just needs to have a confidant due to circumstances. Whatever the hidden agendas here, it will be rough road if the husband puts his foot down hard enough. What is your feeling about having a heart to heart with him? Perhaps he would tell you where the line in the sand is drawn in his view, and perhaps you can live with that.
Good luck - and welcome to the forum.
Jeff