Older WT quote reveals attitude toward disfellowshipped family members

by OnTheWayOut 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Hey, I discovered this older quote from reexamine.org.
    I could not believe how serious it was about what a family
    member was not allowed to do with a disfellowshipped
    person in the family- Your comments on it?

    WT 11/15/52 p. 703

    Questions From Readers

    ?

    In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?—P. C., Ontario, Canada.

    We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.

    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.

    God’s law does not allow a marriage partner to dismiss his mate because his mate becomes disfellowshiped or apostatizes. Neither will the law of the land in most cases allow a divorce to be granted on such grounds. The faithful believer and the apostate or disfellowshiped mate must legally continue to live together and render proper marriage dues one to the other. A father may not legally dismiss his minor child from his household because of apostasy or disfellowshiping, and a minor child or children may not abandon their father or their mother just because he becomes unfaithful to God and his theocratic organization. The parent must by laws of God and of man fulfill his parental obligations to the child or children as long as they are dependent minors, and the child or children must render filial submission to the parent as long as legally underage or as long as being without parental consent to depart from the home. Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped.

    If children are of age and continue to associate with a disfellowshiped parent because of receiving material support from him or her, then they must consider how far their spiritual interests are being endangered by continuing under this unequal arrangement, and whether they can arrange to support themselves, living apart from the fallen-away parent. Their continuing to receive material support should not make them compromise so as to ignore the disfellowshiped state of the parent. If, because of acting according to the disfellowship order of the company of God’s people, they become threatened with a withdrawal of the parental support, then they must be willing to take such consequences.

    Satan’s influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God’s organization. To do this would be disastrous, and so the faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order. How would or could this be done while living under the same roof or in personal, physical contact daily with the disfellowshiped? In this way: By refusing to have religious relationship with the disfellowshiped.

    The marriage partner would render the marriage dues according to the law of the land and in due payment for all material benefits bestowed and accepted. But to have religious communion with the disfellowshiped person—no, there would be none of that! The faithful marriage partner would not discuss religion with the apostate or disfellowshiped and would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one. As Jesus said: "If he does not listen even to the congregation [which was obliged to disfellowship him], let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector [to Jehovah’s sanctified nation]." (Matt. 18:17, NW) Hurt to such one would not be authorized, but there would be no spiritual or religious fellowshiping.

    The same rule would apply to those who are in the relation of parent and child or of child and parent. What natural obligation falls upon them according to man’s law and God’s law the faithful parent or the faithful child will comply with. But as for rendering more than that and having religious fellowship with such one in violation of the congregation’s disfellowship order—no, none of that for the faithful one! If the faithful suffers in some material or other way for the faithful adherence to theocratic law, then he must accept this as suffering for righteousness’ sake.

    The purpose of observing the disfellowship order is to make the disfellowshiped one realize the error of his way and to shame him, if possible, so that he may be recovered, and also to safeguard your own salvation to life in the new world in vindication of God. (2 Thess. 3:14, 15; Titus 2:8) Because of being in close, indissoluble natural family ties and being of the same household under the one roof you may have to eat material food and live physically with that one at home, in which case 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 and 2 John 10 could not apply; but do not defeat the purpose of the congregation’s disfellowship order by eating spiritual or religious food with such one or receiving such one favorably in a religious way and bidding him farewell with a wish for his prosperity in his apostate course.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    This one still bothers me. I was there and 8 years old in 1952. This article was a service meeting rant topic by Martin Anderson. After the meeting my mother told me that if we lived in ancient Palestine, and if I ever left the "truth", she and my dad would throw the first stones to murder me.

    That was a very discouraging thing for a mother to tell an 8 year old. One of my day dreams growing up was that I had been switched at birth in a hospital mix up and my real parents would come and rescue me from these two idiots. My whole life with them was rebel, abuse, compliance, rebel, abuse, compliance, ad infinitum. . .

  • daystar
    daystar

    \/ !!

    What filth...

    Garybuss, that is just terrible... I can't imagine saying something like that to a child...

  • avengers
    avengers

    I remember this. Isn't it terrible how these "leaders" wriggle their way into families and destroy them

    We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization

    No, but they would like to exterminate us.
    Saying like this make them look like psychopaths, whom some of these guys probably are.

    .

    Andy

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Thanks for sharing Garybuss,

    No wonder you shoot from the hip and tell us not to take any nonsense from elders, CO's, etc.
    I read this and said, "They didn't actually imply that they wished they could KILL former believers?"

    After re-reading it, I knew that they did imply just that. How could a parent tell an 8-yr-old that?

  • jambon1
    jambon1

    These and many, many other statements in the WTS literature are nothing short of filth.

    To direct the sheep in this manner is both cruel and heartless.

    Most right minded people would find this sort of bullshit offensive. Its a shame that some of our relatives actually believe that it is right and proper to be 'loyal' to 'jehovah' in this area. Everyone outside the truth would view this way of treating people as utter, brainwashed madness. I have never met one worldly person who thinks that this is acceptable. In fact, most think that you are having a joke when you tell them about it.

    For this doctrine and a few other, I can safely say that I will never, ever return to JW lala land.

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    when I was d/f in 1987 MY daughter told ME I should feel happy that I didnt live back in the law times because she WOULD HAVE TO STONE ME TO DEATH!but the society teaches a more loving way just to shun.

    and if I ever left the "truth", she and my dad would throw the first stones to murder me.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    In fact, most think that you are having a joke when you tell them about it.

    Yes, I have discussed some JW beliefs with non-JW family. They support me, but just assume
    that I exaggerate some practices toward former believers, until I fully explain them.

    They say that I should not have a strained relationship with my wife if I love her, but just walk away
    from WTS, then I helped them see the truth on the matter. Now they know why I choose to fade.

  • brutusmaximus
    brutusmaximus

    The scrpiture quote doesn't even read from the NWT and it is OT nonsense as well, they just keep twisting things to suit their own needs

    I had to laugh at the sentiment where they say "but no we can't stone them now" too bloddy right you can't ar*e hole!! It isn't even talking about leaving the borg and it is not talking about being apostate

    Man I really hate the way they go on and I am so glad to be oot!!

    BM

  • sf
    sf

    Ah, good morning gentlemen. I was logging on to see if any elders, C.O.'s, P.O.'s, and D.O.'s have told any of their flock, that they carely deep for, that this site is a great asset for research and support. And that there is nothing truly evil or wrong in coming here to gain such. I'll get to that thread later.

    shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee

    Meaning, such wickedness WAS allowed to go on for GOD KNOWS how long. I'm afraid the damage has been done. Fear IS rampant.

    the worldly nation in which we live

    Geez, talk about your ingrates.

    The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.

    Yet a warped "no-blood transfusion POLICY" is not killing young children whose parents are "devout" in their beliefs OF THESE POLICIES"? ~ sigh~

    the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us undersome natural obligation to livewith and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.

    What about the "law" of altruism?! LOL!!!

    Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped.

    PAY ATTENTION HERE YOU LURKERS AND SEEKERS. THIS ORGANIZATION HAS CARTE BLANC WHEN IT COMES TO KNOWING YOUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP/ CONNECTION WITH "GOD". REMEMBER, "JEHOVAH" SPEAKS TO THEM IN THEIR HAIRY EARS. WORD!

    acting according to the disfellowship order of the company of God’s people

    LOL!!!!

    (I'm not having success at turning off the highlighter...pardon me)

    become threatened with a withdrawal of the parental support, then they must be willing to take such consequences.

    ***NOTE***:

    THIS IS WHERE THIS ORGANIZATIONS SHUNNING POLICY, AS THE RESULT OF DISFELLOWSHIPMENT, IS BORN AND GROWS INTO TOTAL HATRED FOR THE "APOSTATE/ OPPOSER" AND/ OR ANYONE WHO EVER "TURNED AWAY FROM JEHOVAH AND HIS ORGANIZATION". WHAT YOU ARE NOT PREPARED FOR IS....

    THOSE CONSEQUENCES.

    UNLESS YOU HAVE ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED BEING DISFELLOWSHIPPED, YOU CAN ONLY IMAGINE THE EXTENT THAT THE SHUNNING PUNISHMENT, EVEN TELLING YOU THAT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOW DIE AT ARMAGEDDON, IS TAKEN BY THE JW FAMILY.

    HATRED IS FOSTERED IN THIS ORGANIZATION.

    faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order

    ******RED FLAG*******

    __________________

    Okay, this is a great thread to share with the flock, brothers.

    sKally

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