If myths and legends are at one time taken as fact, how do they get such status? What type of people knowingly lie about profound matters and then allow others to be taken in by that lie, knowing the lie will change someone else's life? How do these stories get embellished - seemingly without anyone realizing someone is spinning a longer and longer yarn - and why does it not smite the consciences of such people? Why do people let credulity take over and form entire religious and social systems around these stories?
Some say the Bible is fiction. How do people go about creating such fiction without getting caught-out by the majority? Why would they imagine such things, knowing they are building a false paradigm in which they will eventually be forced to live? Where is the payoff? And why do such things catch-on and spread like a brushfire?
I wasn't going to post these questions, but I ran into something that made me want to post and get your feedback on this subject.
The date of the first newspaper publication of the following information and the name of the paper in which it was published vary across references. But, the gist of the story is as follows:
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"An email says that NASA (The U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration) has stumbled across some computer generated evidence that the Bible is true. "A man named Harold Hill, a NASA consultant and president of the Curtis engine company, describes how NASA computers were looking back in time [by calculating satellite/planetary/lunar orbits for the past and future, depending on what version you read] when they issued an alert that something was wrong. "There seemed to be a day missing from the calculations. "The scientists puzzled over this a long time until someone in their midst reflected that in the Bible, there's a story about the day the sun stood still for the Hebrew leader Joshua. "This solves the puzzle, almost. "According to the computer, not an entire day was lost, but 23 hours and 20 minutes. Now there's a new problem. "What about the other 40 minutes? That's when the same employee remembers that there is another story in the Bible about a day when the sun moved backwards 10 degrees which, according to the employee, is an arc of 40 minutes...so the entire question of the missing day is solved!"
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On thing that is consistent in the reports about this urban legend is that it was started by a man named Harold Hill. He supposedly heard this story (possibly the late 19th-century version), embellished it, and started spreading it during public lectures:
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"Except for the reference to the astronauts, this version of 'the Missing Day' story has been around for nearly 30 years. "Harold Hill was a real person and he was the president of the Curtis Engine Company in Baltimore, Maryland. "He had converted to Christianity as an adult and became a popular speaker among Christian groups, because he was a successful businessman, claimed to be a consultant to NASA, and did presentations on science and the Bible. One of his most popular presentations was the story of the Missing Day. ... "One problem is that apart from Harold Hill, there is no known source for the NASA story. For many years, whenever anyone wrote to him about it, he sent a form letter which said he had misplaced the source of the information, but would send everybody a copy when he found it. "The source never materialized. "In his subsequent book, Hill dismissed all skepticism about the story and said that no substantiation was needed. "His attitude was that if people believed it and it drew them to spiritual things, it was justified." [italics mine]
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Is this the attitude that allows myths and legends to be accepted as fact? Did some among the ancient Greeks perhaps think they were doing their people a favor by spreading lies about "the gods", maybe moving their audience to a higher morality? Perhaps the storytellers were bemused by the gullibility of their audiences and the popularity they earned by their skillful crafting of fiction? [Being an X-JW, I know the power of the mind to "want" to believe something - even if it is a lie - if it offers comfort, familiarity, and the illusion of security.] Were they just campfire stories that spun out of control over time?
One individual who contacted Hill wrote:
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"In July, 1970 I wrote to Mr. Hill, raising questions such as these and requesting specific information on who had done the computer work, where they had published papers about it, etc. "Hill's reply came rather promptly: a form letter, addressed to "All who have requested additional MISSING DAY details." Mr. Hill had, by that time, received a "flood of over 1000 letters and phone calls." He says that the newspaper article was apparently adapted from "one of the many talks I have made on the subject of Science and the Bible and the perfect harmony which exists between them." "But Hill admits, "Since this incident first came to my attention about two years ago, I have misplaced the source of information and so am unable to give you names and places but will forward them as soon as I locate them. In the meantime I can only tell you that had I not considered the source to be completely reliable, I would not have made use of this information in the first place. I am interested in facts and not fiction." Sure. It is now 1979. Nearly nine years have elapsed, and Mr. Hill has not sent me the "names and places". Perhaps the source of his second-hand story was not so reliable as he thought. "The remainder of Mr. Hill's form letter was devoted to the specious blather one often hears from "born again" Christians. In fact, he says, "Since meeting Jesus Christ personally about sixteen years ago, I need no scientific proof of God's Reality." But that doesn't stop Hill from including alleged scientific evidence for religion in his public speeches. "Mr. Hill is apparently not at all concerned that he might be perpetuating a fairy tale. e even encourages further dissemination of this fable by referring those who wish to reprint the article to contact the EVENING WORLD newspaper."
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While the "missing day" story has been debunked, many haven't gotten the message and still think this story is true.
Myth, Legend... Religion? How does it start?
by Ingenuous 10 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Ingenuous
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Ingenuous
Apologies for the formatting! I'm at work and my browser won't let me fix it!!
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Narkissos
Very interesting story and questions.
It reminded me of an older thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/102264/1.ashx
Shortly put, I think this is a gradual cristallisation process, involving several strata of literary creativity and popular misunderstanding. E.g. someone invents an upbuilding tale; less educated people mistake it as a true story; creative minds add other upbuilding details, which in turn are mistaken as "events"; those who point out the non-historical character of the story are shunned as "unbelievers"; "scientific minds" among the believers rationalise and defend it as literally possible...
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Ingenuous
Thanks, Narkissos. I was looking for a thread like that before I posted.
I'm focusing on the line that's crossed between "someone invents an upbuilding tale" and "people mistake it as a true story." (Do we have to assume that they're all "less educated"?) Also of interest to me are the changes in course which occur when "creative minds add other upbuilding details" and the stories "are mistaken as 'events'". Why would no one notice the emergence of these new bits of "history"? Why isn't there enough cold water thrown on these ideas before they become so entrenched and powerful that dissenters are persecuted?
Whereas you asked "How did they dare?", I guess my additional question is "How did they get away with it?" -
IP_SEC
I think current myth and religion started out as a culture's fiction. Then over centuries they (or their conquerors) forgot or didnt realize it was good story telling and mistook it for the real deal. The true account of creation or whatevah.
Who knows? Maybe in a 1000 years the culture that comes after us will forget that Star Wars was just fiction and start worshipping Look the Air Walker and think that Drago Veeder is the devil er sumthin
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Narkissos
(Do we have to assume that they're all "less educated"?)
Perhaps not all, but i do think education was/is an important factor.
Another, as IP_SEC pointed out, is the distance which grows along with time and cultural change. The difference between "story" and "history" was probably always perceived, at least in some circles, but not as sharply as it is now. We consider it a form of lying, or dishonesty, to present a story as history, or to allow it to be taken as such. Obviously it was not always the case.
Why would no one notice the emergence of these new bits of "history"? Why isn't there enough cold water thrown on these ideas before they become so entrenched and powerful that dissenters are persecuted?
There was a lot of cold water thrown, but mostly by outsider critics such as Apion on Judaism or Celsus on Christianity. This in turn had the the insiders stick together in defence -- even those like Josephus or Origen who were certainly less naive than the average believer. Internal criticism existed (as the many differences between the Bible texts show) but had to be more subtle.
I guess my additional question is "How did they get away with it?"
For the above reasons, very easily I guess: a good story couldn't be wrong, especially if it served the common cause.
An classic read on this subject, in a different field but all the more illuminating, is Paul Veyne's Did the Greek believe in their Myths?
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OnTheWayOut
First of all, I would have thought about the earliest known (photographic or otherwise) accurate position of celestial bodies and realized that it was after that "missing day." There is no way someone could have counted backward from what science knows and say that everything out there is missing a day.
Your main topic- I don't have the names of the books I read, but I have read about the possibility of how the Bible has started.
I offer the short version, as a book really is too short, you will have to understand much more is needed in explanation.The Hebrews worshipped like the other nations, but one group liked YHWH
above other gods. When Cyrus returned Hebrews to Israel, and this group
had permission to rebuild the temple, they looked like they had YHWH's favor.
People started worshipping YHWH above other gods. The priests decided to write
a set of laws for the people- IN ORDER TO CONTROL THEM, GET THEM TO GIVE
DONATIONS TO THE PRIESTS- as priests ALWAYS want that.
Later, the priests gathered all the legends and stories of this culture, re-wrote or
recorded them for the first time. Most may have been anonymous, some were given
famous names as authors to give weight to their sayings. As time went on, a bit
more re-writing when people did not like a story, or when it was discovered that one
thing contradicted another, adding famous names to more and more writings.Many things that were supposedly written as prophetic of Jesus Christ were actually
about WISDOM or were about THE KING of ISRAEL/ JUDAH being the son of God.
(It helps to flatter the king.) These were re-written again and the person spoken of
became generic, remove the name since that king is dead. Over time, these came
to be accepted as GOD'S WORD.As for Christians, Jesus was a Jew who knew his Hebrew scriptures. He decided that he
needed to ride into Jerusalem on an ass to "fulfill" prophecy, and claim other stuff, too.
When he was executed, instead of running scared, the Apostles/ Disciples decided to
continue the charade. Besides telling tall tales, they wrote tall tales, consulting their
Hebrew scriptures. Matthew and Luke did not even get their stories exactly the same.
Luke neglects to take Jesus thru Egypt. Perhaps that flaw was discovered after Luke's writings
and a trip to Egypt was added by Matthew (probably not the actual writers). Otherwise,
similar to the Hebrews, they edited their stories and got the gospels. Paul's letters and other
letters (if indeed written by the named authors) were never intended to be GOD's Word, but priests
(yes, priests again) re-wrote them and elevated their importance.NOW YOU KNOW. I am glad I could answer your question. Some people spend their whole life
not knowing this stuff. REMEMBER, it's just a theory. We don't really know either, but we do know
that the Dead Sea scrolls reveal much more than religion wants us to believe. Just like the WTS knows
the truth behind putting the name JEHOVAH into the Greek scriptures, but hopes you don't do the
research.
WOW, I am happy I finished explaining the roots of Judaism and Christianity in just a few paragraphs. -
OnTheWayOut
I also add my opinion (based on information from books I read) that
Nobody EVER followed all those Hebrew laws very much. They were way too complicated.
The priests wrote them to get sacrifices. They gave weight to them by acting as if they
used to be in place in the past. "People tried to obey all those laws up until King Solomon's day
had past," they would claim, but the laws were written after that time.
Solomon would probably get a good laugh at what they attribute to his wisdom, David, too.
After all, David stole the throne from Saul, he wasn't even in line for it. He would thank the
priests for making him into such a great guy. -
M.J.
How do people get away with it? It must be pretty easy. If L.Ron Hubbard can make people believe in whacked out science fiction stories...anything's possible I guess.
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OnTheWayOut
And John was probably writing about oppressive NERO when he wrote Apocalypse (Revelations).