"Won't you all look stupid when Armageddon comes!"

jgnat

I've often pondered the impossibility of arguing with an Armageddon-believer. It's like, the only way you can prove they are wrong is out-wait them. And if they refuse to set a date, well, you'd be staring the poor prophet down when you are wobbly, grey, and snaggle-toothed. I can see us in my mind's eye, two red-eyed seniors, nose to nose in our rockers, daring the other to go for their potty-break first.

Does belief in Armageddon make one a better believer? Is there an extra edge to your preaching? A certain frantic pace in your efforts to evangelize? What happens if you DO convince all your neighbours that the sky is falling? Are they happier for the information? Do they become better citizens, kinder individuals, gentler souls?

...and what of all those who refuse to follow you along on your Armageddon-road? How do you treat them? Do you pity them, mourn them nightly, or angrily reject their smug faith in a normal life-span?

I've concluded that each life, treated as a gift, is the best way to honor God. The future is up to Him, and my time here can end as suddenly as a set of screeching brakes. Who cares if life is long or short? Live it well. The future will take care of itself as long as I take care of the basics.

So I figure, the Armageddon-believer steps every day closer to foolishness, without ever fully arriving.

Those who don't, if they choose to live justly showing mercy to all, will they not be treated mercifully, no matter how things end?

fullofdoubtnow

Good post, jgnat.

Does belief in Armageddon make one a better believer? Is there an extra edge to your preaching? A certain frantic pace in your efforts to evangelize?

I don't think it makes one a "better", or more sincere, believer, but it does add an extra sense of urgency to the preaching. In my 25 years as a jw, it was always in the back of my mind that armageddon was very close, as we were constantly being told in the watchtower and at the kh, so it was an urgent message tnat needed to be broadcast to as many as possible while there was still time.

What happens if you DO convince all your neighbours that the sky is falling? Are they happier for the information? Do they become better citizens, kinder individuals, gentler souls?

I thought they would be. I thought I was giving people who listened to me peace of mind and contentment for the present, and genuine hope for the future.

...and what of all those who refuse to follow you along on your Armageddon-road? How do you treat them? Do you pity them, mourn them nightly, or angrily reject their smug faith in a normal life-span?

I never got angry with them, more at myself really, as I'd failed to convince them to take the only action that would assure their long - term future. I felt sorry for them "knowing" what their fate would be at armageddon because they hadn't listened to me.

So I figure, the Armageddon-believer steps every day closer to foolishness, without ever fully arriving

I wouldn't have agreed with you on that point a few years ago, but now I think you are spot on. I used to think I was earning my salvation, but in reality, I was just wasting my efforts, with nothing to show for them.

Those who don't, if they choose to live justly showing mercy to all, will they not be treated mercifully, no matter how things end?

I'm not sure what happens at the end of one's life anymore, but if there is a god of love, I would think he would treat people on their merits.

Linda

Mary

You know what I'd like to do to see exactly how much the Witnesses actually believe the Big A is right around the corner? Get some fanatical Dub to sign a piece of paper stating that they "KNOW' Armageddon will be here within the next X amount of years (7 years is a safe bet) and that if it' not, they'll sign over the deed to their house to you---an apostate.

Let's see them put their ~~money~~ faith where their mouth is.

under_believer

Or Mary, better yet, get them to promise they'll quit the faith.

Neither contract would be enforceable, btw. :) But fun to contemplate.

blondie

The WTS speaks out of both sides of their mouth on this. When wanting to deal with the disappointment of JWs regarding the long wait for Armageddon to come, they point out Abraham and how he was faithful to God all his life, never expecting the fulfillment of the promise in his lifetime.

*** w86 5/15 p. 17 Finding Delight in Jehovah's Word ***

But remember, Abraham abandoned his home city and lived out his life in tents although he would never in his lifetime see the fulfillment of God's promises.

*** w87 1/15 p. 13 par. 14 So Great a Cloud of Witnesses! ***

The fact that they did not get the fulfillment of divine promises in their lifetime did not embitter Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob or cause them to become apostates. They did not abandon Jehovah and go back to Ur, becoming immersed in worldly activities.

How many JWs feel stupid now as the near the end of their earthly life, knowing that they will not be one of the millions who will never die.

Blondie

Honesty

Does belief in Armageddon make one a better believer? Is there an extra edge to your preaching? A certain frantic pace in your efforts to evangelize? What happens if you DO convince all your neighbours that the sky is falling? Are they happier for the information? Do they become better citizens, kinder individuals, gentler souls?

I call it the Watchtower's FEAR FACTOR.

Scare 'em so bad they'll run to the organization for their salvation.

jgnat

fullofdoubtnow, thank you for your frank comments. It is painful to dredge up old beliefs. Thank you for braving it for me.

Mary and under_believer, I have actually done something like this to good effect. I ask, "On the OUTSIDE how much longer do you think this old system will last?" Asking questions like this shortens the string on the carrot. And hopefully the time spent worshipping the society.

Yeah, blondie. But when the paradise promise is first presented to the recruit, they don't suggest an Abrahamic wait is in front of them, do they? It's always "any day now", pointing to recent events.

Honesty, I've found that people living in fear don't have much time to be kind. It's the spirit of gratefulness and richness that allows us to give. Pressed down, overflowing kind of richness talked about in the bible. Why doesn't the WTBTS talk more about the richness of basking in the full forgiveness and love of God?

I am equally annoyed at Christendom's armageddon-beleivers. I would dearly love to wipe the smug look off their face. It seems to me their vision of that dreamed-of future disaster fails to allow them to see in to the hearts of the people around them.

Bonnie_Clyde

You know what I'd like to do to see exactly how much the Witnesses actually believe the Big A is right around the corner? Get some fanatical Dub to sign a piece of paper stating that they "KNOW' Armageddon will be here within the next X amount of years (7 years is a safe bet) and that if it' not, they'll sign over the deed to their house to you---an apostate.
Let's see them put their ~~money~~ faith where their mouth is.

Hey Mary - Did you see the post awhile ago where a woman lost her children to her ex-husband because she told him that if Armageddon wasn't here by 1975, he could have the children. She was so certain that it would be here by 1975 that she was willing to gamble her own children. Yikes!

chiddy

When I left in 1995 and then Da'ed I did not really see or meet many JW's just very minimal contact with my parents and , the odd funeral. But there was one jw girl called Karen who in the 4 times I saw here she always made a point of talking to me even though she was not meant to. It was the usual jw small talk about the big A just around the corner, you jkow its the troof etc, and I always used to reply with the usual don't hold your breath etc etc.

Well I saw her last August at my old mans funeral and she spoke to me again about the usual big A , and you know its the troof, I just replied yeah,yeah,yeah. Well I saw her again a couple of months ago shopping in Safeways, she said hallo and got to the usual talk about the Big A again, so I said to her ,"Karen we're going to be having this conversation again in another 10 years and when we're old and grey!

They just don't get it do they?

blondie

Yeah, blondie. But when the paradise promise is first presented to the recruit, they don't suggest an Abrahamic wait is in front of them, do they? It's always "any day now", pointing to recent events.

Have to get them hooked first and landed. That Abraham technique is how to keep them in once they realize the end is not as soon as they were told. But the hooked and landed JW has to deal with both thoughts simultaneously (see "doublethink").

Blondie

"Won't you all look stupid when Armageddon comes!"

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