"Won't you all look stupid when Armageddon comes!" (page 3)

ESTEE

jgnat, Your answer to Blondie:

Yeah, blondie. But when the paradise promise is first presented to the recruit, they don't suggest an Abrahamic wait is in front of them, do they? It's always "any day now", pointing to recent events.

Yes, the big "sense of urgency" . . . clean up your life, etc. Get in line with Jah or die fear-based kind of teachings.

Once the new recruit is baptised, then they get hit with the "Abrahamic wait" . . . ?

In Saskatoon, back in 1975 I knew an elder who refused to pay into a pension plan, believing he would never need it. He openly laughed at anyone who questioned him. He was making good money working a desk job with the railroad. When he retired and 1975 came and went a quarter of a century ago, he and his wife had to sell his house and move into a small apartment because they could no longer afford the lifestyle they had been accustomed to, having only a small monthly Canada Pension. Last I heard they were still around, but could hardly look anyone in the eye who had known about their misguided faith in the borg's teachings. They were still "hanging on"---he was an elder.

ESTEE

jgnat

Daniel-p: It's as if I did die - spiritually I gave myself up and I have nothing else to give anymore. I gave my life once, how can I give it again, constantly?

I think I understand. I've brushed close to that cloying darkness. I haven't looked back. Those of us who have been close to death or rank evil and pulled ourselves back carry a mark. It's as if we refuse to let the other side win, and we are out to prove it every day of our lives. There was a sweet dotty old lady in our church for whom every day was loaded with sunshine. She liked wearing a blazingly white and trim polyester suit with a bright daisy in the lapel. She readily told you how God pulled her back from the brink of suicide and told her that He had a different timetable. She was to live as one having a second lease until He called her home. When she did finally pass away, she instructed that all visitors were to be given a flower. Her end was a celebration, and one of the most touching services I'd ever attended.

Daniel-p: I'm not so sure Christ has much to offer to those living in the present. Take out all the grandiose miracle-laden promised futures and you haven't got much left.

I beg to differ, Daniel-p. I suggest you read the red letters in your bible as a man returned from the dead (which you are). I think you will see a lot of mercy there. A call to embrace people of all kinds. I have no qualms serving a God like that.

Estee, of course he had to remain an elder. That position was the only way he could maintain a shred of dignity. What a terrible waste. I wonder how many more Witness seniors are in the same boat?

greendawn

Armageddon will never come in the way the JWs believe because they are not fit to preach the gospel and for God to use them as the means for separating the world into sheep and goat since no one has to take them seriously: they are too substandard both as individuals and as an org. They are an impostor organisation pretending to be the organisation of the end so as to profit out of it.

Qcmbr

Since God's recorded record of protecting His followers (whoever they decide they are) is not that impressive I wouldn't be too worried 'bout seeing a bunch of smug people pointing fingers. On the flip side if there was such a select bunch of people who somehow happened to have just got it right and have so gained some measure of divine protection I'll be too busy trying to avoid the brown-pants scenario of my imminent grisly death to actually notice. In all seriousness any armageddon scenario will be hell for everyone (would you really want to stay around and clean up during a post apocalyptic survival period?) I see no scriptural basis for any special protection for God's chosen - after all Israel, God's eternal covenant people will get beaten after a siege and will be raped, murdered and suffer a nightmare before they are delivered. In fact Armageddon seems worst for those who believe than for those who don't.

heathen

It's not just the WTBTS telling people , it's the bible saying to always keep in expectation , jesus said on the day you think not . In other words always be prepared . The problem with the WTBTS is they did try to pick dates that obviously failed .Then they want credibility as a prophet? I don't see how .To me the bible is saying it's due to mans incompetence that the planet becomes uninhabitable during the end and it takes God to save anybody from certain death . Armageddon is a spiritual battle between good and evil and ends with the great day of God almighty .

Flash

So I figure, the Armageddon-believer steps every day closer to foolishness, without ever fully arriving.

I think Heathen is on target. Jesus was sure about Armageddon. I do believe it too...AND I believe it will be in our life-time! After 81 years passed from 1914 the GB paniked and changed a major teaching of Christ stumbling many.

I think we are all better off to follow the teachings of Jesus carefully than we are to follow arrogant, self absorbed men who insist we obey and accept their views in everything as they 'lean on their own understanding.'

Those who don't, if they choose to live justly showing mercy to all, will they not be treated mercifully, no matter how things end?

I do believe that God and His Son will read the hearts of all humanity and save all those deserving. He has too, after all, His people have done such a poor job in getting His word spread, most of the earth hasn't correctly heard it yet!!

heathen

Yah it just makes more sense to say that armageddon is already here and the saints and demons along with the worlds political powers are at war in a spiritual battle . I actually heard a j-dubby elder say that during the sunday discourse .kinda made sense to me , more so than how I've heard the fundies saying that it takes place when all the nations gather to attack Israel and then God steps in to anihilate them . Poor guy probly got df'd over it . I remember who it was too .The belief amongst most j-dubbys is that armageddon is the battle that removes all political powers in a literal sense and hasn't happened yet.

jgnat

Agapa

, here are the same verses with a different emphasis:

"For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning."
" Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought YOU to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah,

I am a firm believer in living every day honoring God, with gratefulness, giving to others. Why is it that Armageddon-believers seem so much more focused on the destruction than the opportunity to see God face to face?

If I criticise an Armageddon-believers for their obsession does that mean I am automatically damned? I think not, if I pay attention to the better part of those verses.

Sunspot

I realized I had never really lived before that day because everything was wrapped up in something that may never come. My faith was more in the results of the promises I had been given, rather than in the present.

This hit the bulls-eye for ME!

Every day as a JW, was "just one day closer" but not really living my life, and merely biding time in it while dutifully following WTS procedure.

"Won't you all look stupid when Armageddon comes!"

juni

ESTEE

jgnat

greendawn

Qcmbr

heathen

Flash

heathen

jgnat

Sunspot

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