Very good coverage Blondie. The fact is: many of us cannot yet read a Watchtower like you do. You are so "centered" that you can clearly see when they are feeding the flock a load of bull for their own selfish purposes.
Thankyou again for the great study in critical reading and thinking.
Would you say that an underlying message in each Watchtower article might be that the Watchtower Org and Governing Body is the channel of salvation today?
Do you think that the round robin of articles in the mags and discourses at the KH are all geared to this end; to enslave millions to the Watchtower Org?
I am coming to believe so. The whole thing is a sham religion...a fake.....and millions are caught in its evil sad web.
Ask yourself, why is it the Watchtower Society has no charity? They hate the world around them and care only for themselves? This is to keep all the money inside the org and flowing in one direction.
"Religion is a snare and a racket!"----they would certainly know!
Comments You Won't Hear at the 10-15-06 WT Study (PETITIONS)
by blondie 30 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
anewme
-
jgnat
I think we can all learn to study like blondie does. She's told us how she does it, underlining all the manipulative language and checking out the ellipses (the dreaded....three dots) and unattributed quotes. These skills are useful elsewhere, too. You will be less likely to be taken in by shady salesmen or politicians. Ask yourself, what are they NOT saying?
-
jgnat
Agapa
, here are the same verses with a different emphasis:"For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning."
" Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought YOU to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah,
I am a firm believer in living every day honoring God, with gratefulness, giving to others. Why is it that Armageddon-believers seem so much more focused on the destruction than the opportunity to see God face to face?
If I criticise an Armageddon-believers for their obsession does that mean I am automatically damned? I think not, if I pay attention to the better part of those verses.
-
AuldSoul
Revelation 5:6-14
And I saw standing in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a lamb as though it had been slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which [eyes] mean the seven spirits of God that have been sent forth into the whole earth. And he went and at once took [it] out of the right hand of the One seated on the throne. And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense, and the [incense] means the prayers of the holy ones. And they sing a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."
And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: "The Lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing."
And every creature that is in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, I heard saying: "To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever." And the four living creatures went saying: "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped.Worshipped who? Did obeisance to who? Honored who even in the presence of the one seated on the throne?
But if you tried to offer similar praise to the Lamb in any JW congregation, you would be counseled. Although beings much more lofty than ourselves were humbled in his presence and worshipped the Lamb openly in the very presence of the Father. How does worshipping the Son bring dishonor to the Father, in any case? I never did understand that.
Thank you, blondie, for another spot on analysis.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
heathen
Good point AuldSoul . Jesus is the only angel that didn't correct people when they did acts of worship . The WTBTS is wrong when they say you can't call jesus God . Isaiah 9:6 says Mighty God in reference to the messiah . So capital G is okey dokey even in the bible . Mathew 28:18 says he has all authority in heaven and earth .It's like the old testament God went on vacation after appointing jesus over everything .
-
jschwehm
Years ago the JWs taught that it was inappropriate for faithful JWs to pray for DFed and DAed JWs. I wonder if they still teach this.
Jeff S.
-
blondie
They have "adjusted" or "clarified" that, Jeff.
*** w01 10/1 p. 17 How Can You Help a "Prodigal" Child? ***
If a disfellowshipped youth gives evidence of repentance but does not have "freeness of speech toward God," the parents might pray that if God finds a basis for pardoning the child's error, that His will be done. (1 John 3:21) Hearing these prayers should help the youth to see Jehovah as a merciful God.-Exodus 34:6, 7; James 5:16.
Footnote
w01 10/1 p. 17 How Can You Help a "Prodigal" Child?
Such prayers will not be offered publicly in behalf of a disfellowshipped minor at congregation meetings, as others may not be aware of the condition of the disfellowshipped person.-See The Watchtower, October 15, 1979, page 31.
*** w01 12/1 Questions From Readers ***
Does God's direction recorded at Jeremiah 7:16 mean that Christians would not pray about someone who has been expelled from the Christian congregation because he is an unrepentant sinner?
After pronouncing his judgment against unfaithful Judah, Jehovah said to Jeremiah: "As for you, do not pray in behalf of this people, neither raise in their behalf an entreating cry or a prayer nor beseech me, for I shall not be listening to you."-Jeremiah 7:16.
Why did Jehovah forbid Jeremiah to pray for the Israelites? Clearly, it was because of their flagrant transgressions of his Law. Openly and shamelessly, they were "stealing, murdering and committing adultery and swearing falsely and making sacrificial smoke to Baal and walking after other gods." Consequently, Jehovah told the faithless Jews: "I will throw you out from before my face, just as I threw out all your brothers, the whole offspring of Ephraim." Certainly, it would be out of place for Jeremiah, or anyone else, to pray for Jehovah to reverse His judgment.-Jeremiah 7:9, 15.
In line with this, the apostle John wrote about proper prayer to God. First, he assured Christians: "No matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us." (1 John 5:14) Then, regarding praying in behalf of others, John continued: "If anyone catches sight of his brother sinning a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and he will give life to him, yes, to those not sinning so as to incur death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request." (1 John 5:16) Jesus also spoke of sin that "will not be forgiven," that is, sin against the holy spirit.-Matthew 12:31, 32.
Does this mean that all who are expelled from the Christian congregation for sinning unrepentantly have committed sins that "incur death" and thus should not be prayed about? This would not necessarily be the casebecause in some instances such transgressions are not sins that incur death. In fact, it is difficult to tell if they are. A typical example is King Manasseh of Judah. He erected altars to false gods, offered up his own sons in sacrifice, practiced spiritism, and put a carved image in Jehovah's temple. In fact, the Bible says that Manasseh and the people did "what was bad more than the nations whom Jehovah had annihilated from before the sons of Israel." For all of this, Jehovah punished Manasseh by sending him as captive in fetters to Babylon.-2 Kings 21:1-9; 2 Chronicles 33:1-11.
Were Manasseh's sins, gross as they were, the kind that incur death? Apparently not, for the account goes on to say about him: "As soon as it caused him distress, he softened the face of Jehovah his God and kept humbling himself greatly because of the God of his forefathers. And he kept praying to Him, so that He let himself be entreated by him and He heard his request for favor and restored him to Jerusalem to his kingship; and Manasseh came to know that Jehovah is the true God."-2 Chronicles 33:12, 13.
Thus, we should not jump to the conclusion that a person must be guilty of sin that incurs death solely because he is expelled from the congregation. It may take time for the true heart condition of the individual to be revealed. In fact, it is often stated that one of the purposes of disfellowshipping is to cause the sinner to wake up and hopefully to repent and turn around.
Since the person is no longer in the congregation, any change in heart and attitude may be observed first by those close to him, such as a marriage mate or family members. Those observing such changes may conclude that the transgressor did not commit a sin that incurs death. They may be moved to pray that he may draw strength from God's inspired Word and that Jehovah will act toward the sinner in harmony with His will.-Psalm 44:21; Ecclesiastes 12:14.
While some may be in a position to observe sufficient evidence to believe that the sinner has repented, this may not be the case with the congregation in general. They would be puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one. For this reason, those who feel moved to pray about the sinner should do so only in private, leaving any further development in the matter in the hands of the responsible elders in the congregation.
[Picture on page 31]
Manasseh's gross sins were forgiven when he humbled himself before Jehovah
Blondie
-
Pistoff
"While some may be in a position to observe sufficient evidence to believe that the sinner has repented, this may not be the case with the congregation in general. **They would be puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one.** For this reason, those who feel moved to pray about the sinner should do so only in private , leaving any further development in the matter in the hands of the responsible elders in the congregation."
It is amazing to me how I went along with this as a witness.
As if the reason to avoid praying for someone we loved and worried over should be stopped because someone might be offended.
As if every subject of prayer MUST pass a doctrinal test; as if prayer is a statement of accepted belief, instead of a heartfelt plea for help and strength to get through impossible pain.
As if God, who has the ability to see what we want even though we cannot put words to it, will not understand.
And of all things, hearken back to Jeremiah for counsel to christians about prayer. -
cyberdyne systems 101
Thanks for your comments once again Blondie!
Personally when I used to sit in a meeting and hear someone comment that Jehovah had answered a prayer e.g. A sister had an illness and prayed about it and went in remission, and was then able to serve (WTS interests) more fully, i'd be thinking I wonder how so and so feels knowing their faithful mother died of a similar illness and God didnt save her? It made no sense at all. Also to compare being able to pray to a god and talk to a person is completely different, they cant compare the two. With God your the only one talking, there is no direct 'answer' only what you might percieve to be an answer or not as the case may be.
CS 101
-
garybuss
At the Sioux Falls district assembly in 1971, the speaker announced the lettuce was wilting in the food tent. Then due to Jehovah's good guidance and a check for $800.00 the loving brothers rented a semi trailer with a ThermoKing on it and the announcement was made to the joy of all, that the food crisis was past due to Jehovah's quick intervention and the lettuce was crisp again.
The read deal was the health department was about to shun down the Witness owned food service operation due to unrefrigerated food and unsanitary conditions. Sioux Falls has the HUGE John Morrell meat packing plant and there are 8,000 refrigerated trailers on the ground on any bad day here. The Witnesses rented one of 8,000 and Jehovah got the announced credit for another miracle intervention called up by prayer alone.
I knew what had happened and the announcement that Jehovah had performed a miracle by providing a truck trailer in truck trailer heaven was embarrassing to me. What a load of crap!