CONTEST! See who can answer this really hard dub/bible Question.

gumby

Aint I a clever bastard? I worded that there thread title so's I get you to read this and help my poor forgetful, used to remember, brain out and show me some DOCUMENTATION using JW's vs. Christendom teachings on this question. Here's the question.

How do you prove to a Jehovah's Witness that the "Great Crowd" spoken of in the book of Revelations is a group who's eternal hope is a "heavenly one" rather than a "seperate" group of Jesus followers with a seperate eternal residential destiny?

I do remember reading that a single Greek word was used as regards to where this great crowd served, as well as those who were heavenly priests. The witnesses of course believe that this Great Crowd serves today in the outer coutrtyard, and the heavenly priests (144,000) serve in the inner coutyard. This is one of their strongest scriptures they have ( at least in their minds) which proves that Jesus had TWO sets of christians, two flocks, two destiny's, and two hopes.

I'll pay the winner 25 cents ......cept for you hafta pay for the shipping ( stamp) if you can show conclusive proof using Lexicons Etc. if needed......and Watchtower definitions which twists greek truths....and compare them side by side. Plus.....if you can do it.....everyone will think your a smart bastard like I am and people will worship ya and stuff

Aside from Psalms 37:10, Matt 5 ( meek inherit the earth) and The Revelation Great Crowd discussion, they have nothing to prove that "most" christians have a hope of less importance than a minority of them that have prestige...at least in a spiritual sense.

Gumlazycheater

betterdaze

Hi Gumlazy,

I think what you're looking for can be found here:

http://www.xjw.com/where.html

There was a post a few days ago about the courtyard changing again. Not officially, of course, just sneaked in to a 1998 Watchtower, if I remember correctly. I'll try to find it.

~Sue

diamondblue1974

Gumby- I bet you also asked for others to write up your homework for you when you were at school too...go on admit it!

DB74

MsMcDucket

You're going to have to keep that $0.25 for tonight. I can't help you. I hate studying too!

Clam

Brother Gumby

"We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised."

(Hebrews 6 v 12)

I've PM'd you a load of stuff on this subject.

Bushel - hiding his light under his clam

Narkissos

Hey Gumby,

On the whole topic see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/96705/1.ashx

The Greek word you are looking for is naos, in the strict sense it stands for the "inner santuary" but sometimes (by metonymy, or pars pro toto) for the wider temple complex.

Although this is only a detail in the whole argument against the WT interpretation, the other uses of naos in Revelation strongly point to the narrower sense of naos. Note that most expressions imply a building. In chapter 11 direct reference is made to the innermost chamber (the "Holy of holies") and the building is opposed to the courtyard.

3:12 I will make you a pillar in the sanctuary of my God; you will never go out of it

11:1f: Come and measure the sanctuary of God and the altar and those who worship in it, but do not measure the court outside the sanctuary

11:19: Then God's sanctuaryin heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his sanctuary

14:15 Another angel came out of the sanctuary (= v. 17, cf. 16:1,17)

15:5f the sanctuary of the tent of witness in heaven was opened, and out of the temple came the seven angels

15:8 and the sanctuary was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the sanctuary

jwfacts

Try this article as well. http://jwfacts.com/index_files/greatcrowd.htm

Simply put, the Great Crowd are 'before the throne' in heaven. As said at Revelation 19:1 - After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven …”

Even Watchtower followers believed this until Rutherford overhauled Russells religion.

jwfacts

BTW you mentioned about the meek inheriting the earth being used for the earthly class. The WTS does not teach that this applies to the earthly ones. It is said the Jesus is the meek one that inherits to earth.

Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 p.1201

“The anointed members of the Christian congregation are spoken of as having a heavenly inheritance, sharing Jesus’ inheritance as his “brothers.” (Eph 1:14; Col 1:12; 1Pe 1:4, 5) This includes the earth.—Mt 5:5.”

Watchtower 1958 March 1 p.139

“Will that mark the fulfillment of Jesus’ promise: “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth”? No, at least not primarily. Those words, first uttered by the psalmist David, apply first of all to the pre-eminently meek One, Jesus Christ, to whom his Father, Jehovah God, said: “Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance and the ends of the earth as your own possession.” Inheriting the earth is part of his reward for his meek and faithful course while a man.—Matt. 5:5, AS; Ps. 2:8. Sharing this inheritance with Jesus Christ will be his “bride,” those footstep followers of his, limited to 144,000, who will receive a heavenly reward. (Rev. 14:1, 3) Thus the apostle Paul tells them: “If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ.” Jesus refers to these specially favored followers of his as a “little flock.” However, the principle enunciated at Matthew 5:5 applies also to Jesus’ other sheep who, as meek ones, will receive everlasting life on earth. How so? In that they will hold the earth in trust for Christ and his bride, permanent tenants, as it were.”

MsMcDucket

I'll put it as simple as I can. Good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell (whatever that is). I'm going back to what my mother taught me as a child. So, the people at the Watchtower are going to hell all 144,000 of them.

Nah, I was just joking. Now, I say "What is truth"? Some man's interpretation of the bible? That doesn't work for me anymore.

AK - Jeff

Gumbastrd - ya' need to google 'where are the great crowd'.

One link was here - http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/apologetics/AP1299W2.htm

25 cents please.

Jeff

CONTEST! See who can answer this really hard dub/bible Question.

Share this