In new tract they don't mention the harlot is riding on the back of the UN (page 2)

Lady Liberty

They do have a footnote referencing the reader to the Revelation Climax book. Many times the WTS does this betting that the reader will not have access to the footnoted information.

Blondie

How true you are!! I found that to be the case so many times!! For instance the whole A.K. Grayson quote, they claimed this expert in Assyrian and Babylonian Chronology, agreed with the date 607. Well, upon checking it out from the library, which took two weeks to order from the local University, it didn't say any date at all on the page they refrenced. However, he did state in the forward of that same book that the date for the destruction of Jerusalem was 586/587. They were not counting on anyone checking out and verifying their words. It makes me ill!! Such deception! And Jehovah is directing them?? I think NOT!

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

AK - Jeff

Right on, Blondie.

I don't recall the changes in the Rev book changing this basic idea. The footnote was to the "Revelation Climax" book, which states;

What, then, is this new scarlet-colored wild beast? It must be the image to the wild beast that was brought forth under the urging of the Anglo-American wild beast that has two horns like a lamb. After the image was made, that two-horned wild beast was allowed to give breath to the image of the wild beast. (Revelation 13:14, 15) John now sees the living, breathing image. It pictures the League of Nations organization that the two-horned wild beast brought to life in 1920. U.S. President Wilson had envisioned that the League "would be a forum for the dispensation of justice for all men and wipe out the threat of war forever." When it was resurrected after the second world war as the United Nations, its chartered purpose was "to maintain international peace and security." Page 240

They just don't want to mention the connection due to the potential uproar by those who know of her secret affair with the beast. Safer to just call it 'the worlds political powers'. Damn cowards.

Side note; whilst delivering my DA letter this week, I mentioned that very thing to the elder I was meeting with. He said he had noticed that, and already seemed to have excuses in mind for the reasons. Hmmmm.

Jeff

kazar

According to history, it was when World War I broke out in September of 1939 in spite of the existence of the League of Nations, which had been organized after World War I in order to preserve peace and make the world secure against, at least, another world war.

'Scuse me all. I am terrible with history and I could never make the mental leaps required to absorb and understand the mental gymnastics involved in the WT's interpretation of the scarlet colored beast. Please correct me if I am wrong (be kind) but didn't World War I break out in 1914--or am I as confused as ever from reading Watchtower publications? Thanks for your indulgence.

rebel8

kazar, I think that's when the war started in Europe.

so I have a question scholars......what the heck is the difference btwn the image of the beast and the beast? I thought the beast was the League and the beast was the UN. Now it's not the UN at all????

AK - Jeff

so I have a question scholars......what the heck is the difference btwn the image of the beast and the beast? I thought the beast was the League and the beast was the UN. Now it's not the UN at all????

The 'scarlet colored wild beast' - the one mentioned in Rev 17 is the one considered the UN by the Borg.

The other 'wild beast', mentioned in Rev 13 is described here in the 'Revelation Climax' book;

The symbolic scarlet-colored wild beast "springs from" the seven heads; that is, it is born from, or owes its existence to, those heads of the original "wild beast . . . out of the sea," of which the scarlet-colored wild beast is an image. In what way? Well, in 1919 the Anglo-American power was the ascendant head. The previous six heads had fallen, and the position of dominant world power had passed to this dual head and was now centered in it. This seventh head, as the current representative of the line of world powers, was the moving force in establishing the League of Nations and is still the major promoter and financial support of the United Nations. Thus, in symbol, the scarlet-colored wild beast—the eighth king—"springs from" the original seven heads. Viewed in this way, the statement that it sprang from the seven harmonizes well with the earlier revelation that the wild beast with two horns like a lamb (the Anglo-American World Power, the seventh head of that original wild beast) urged the making of the image and gave it life.—Revelation 13:1, 11, 14, 15. Page 253

The Un [scarlet beast] is said to have sprung from the original wild beast [the political powers in general].

Confused yet? Most witnesses don't know the diff either.

Jeff

kazar

Thanks, Rebel. However, I am still confused. It has always been my understanding that World War I began in 1914 and World War II began in 1939 or thereabouts. I wish some scholars would get on board and clear this up. Either my thinking capacity is greatly diminished by my association with the JW's or it is a misprint in the 1963 article, which I hope that is the case.

And, I also do not understand the difference in the eight beast and the eighth beast. I thought they were both the UN. Not that I could ever make sense out of it let alone try to explain it to a non-JW or even a JW at book studies. .

AK - Jeff

WW I started in 1914.

WW II started in 1939.

The '10 horned wild beast of Rev 13' is the political powers in general according to them.

The 'image of the wild beast' / 'the scarlet colored wild beast' - the one from chapter 17 is the UN according to them.

Jeff

kazar

AK-Jeff. Thank you so much for clarifying those issues for us. For a while there I began to doubt my sanity. I have been known to drift into a Witness fugue mental state when confronted with these issues.

rebel8

I made a couple typos in my last post. Right, 1939 is when WWII started in Europe.

OK so what I meant to ask is, what is the difference between the image of the beast and the beast itself? I thought it was like this in the '80s:

beast= Leage of Nations

image of beast=UN

Is that right?

...so now the change is what?

beast + image of beast=world governments, and UN is completely out of the picture when it comes to Revelation???

.........and is there a difference between the scarlet colored beast and the 10 horned beast? I thought they were supposed to be the same thing. Are they now considered to be 2 separate beasts? Is that new light?

OUTLAW

Butters..You don`t seem to like the topic of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Societys association with the United Nations NGO..Too many people still don`t know about it..You would like the subject to disappear..WHY?...OUTLAW

In new tract they don't mention the harlot is riding on the back of the UN

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