michael/jesus

gspradling

Hi, I know this has been discussed until you are all probably sick of it, but I have been trying to find a watchtower quote on exactly how Michael became Jesus. I have googled it and checked my books throughly without any success. I would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance

Narkissos

Watchtower 3/15 1960:

Is this Michael the resurrected, glorified and enthroned Jesus Christ? Yes. He is here the same as the Michael who helped the angel that brought the prophetic vision to Daniel. (Dan. 10:13, 21, JP) Before 2 B.C. God’s only-begotten Son in heaven was called Michael, this name meaning "Who is like God?" When he emptied himself of his heavenly powers and his life was miraculously transferred to the womb of the virgin Jewess Mary and he was born and called Jesus, did he forfeit his heavenly name Michael? No! Before the birth of Jesus there are ten men in the nation of Israel who were listed with the name Michael, yet the Son of God was not to be known on earth by that name. "You are to call his name Jesus," said the angel Gabriel to Mary his mother. (Luke 1:26-31; 2:21) So on earth it was not even hinted at that he had been Michael in heaven and "one of the chief princes." Daniel 8:11, 25 (JP;AS) speaks of Jehovah God as "the prince of the host" and "the prince of princes." Jehovah is the chiefest Prince, and with Him his Son Michael is "one of the chief princes." He has become Prince of Peace.—Isa. 9:6.

15
When he died as the man Jesus Christ and was resurrected and went back to heaven, what was his proper name? Was it still or was it only Jesus Christ? No; it was not just his earthly human name. He resumed his heavenly name Michael. The name Jesus Christ was retained in order to show his identicalness with the humanborn Son of God on earth. The name Michael was resumed in order to tie him in with his prehuman existence. As Michael, he was the heavenly member whom Jehovah’s wifely organization of holy angels, Jehovah’s symbolic "woman," provided in order to be the Seed that should be bruised in the heel by the great Serpent and that should, in turn, bruise the Serpent in the head. (Gen. 3:15) Hence it was a just thing that the glorified Jesus Christ, who had been bruised in the heel on earth, should, as Michael once again, battle against Satan and his demons and hurl them out of heaven to beneath his feet at the earth. Jude 9 calls him "Michael the archangel" who had had a dispute once before in heaven with Satan the Devil, and had won.

Butters

AT this time, I would like to interject my own personal commentary:

1. Human beings do not pre-exist.

2. Yeshua the Messiah is a human being.

3. Yeshua the Messiah is the son of Yoseph and Miriyam.

4. Yeshua sucked breast milk from his mother, was taught Torah, burped, and made tables and other wood furnishings as the carpenter he grew up to be.

5. Angels do not fornicate with women or enter people's bodies. The accounts in Genesis 6 are not talking about angels. Genesis 6:5-7 makes it abundantly clear that Yahweh is angry at mankind, not his angels. If angels did have relations with women, then Messiah's birth would be a violation of something God hates anyway.

6. Angels do not die. (Luke 20:36)

7. Angels do not marry, not are given in marriage. (Matthew 22:30). Messiah has a bride (Revelation 21:9)

8. Quite clearly, Revelation 6:1,2 proves that Messiah is the one opening a seal, not the one riding the horse. The false Messiah, who fights and kills with the other 4 horsemen of the apocolypse is not the same guy opening the seal.

9. Michael had a dispute with the Satan (the Jews in Moses' day) over the "body of Moses" in Jude 1:9. Michael DARED NOT to bring a judgement against the people at that time, but said "May YHWH rebuke you"... If Michael were Messiah, he could rebuke the Satan here in question. He didnt'. As we know, Messiah rebuked MANY satans in his day...

10. The Watchtower bible and tract society is a bullshit organization that cannot understand bible texts in their authentic meaning. They must twist and wrest the scriptures to their own destruction. This is most unfortuneate that we cannot do what we can to save 6 or 7 million people who won't be around with the billions of others who make it to happy hell....

zeroday

My personal take: The Bible, God and Jesus are Fiction.

moggy lover

If you are looking for a WTS apologia on how they derive a Michael/Jesus relationsip, their latest publication "What does the Bible Really Teach" - [Subtitled: No, honest, this time we really, really got it right, promise - at least till the next edition] has an extensive section at the back in the appendix. Theres nothing new in there but it is comprehensive as you will get. If you don't have the book someone may be able to scan the relative pages for you. I believe it is also available for download at Reorganize.com.

For a rebuttal, there are several web sites available, such as MacGregor Ministries and others

Cheers

freetosee

7. Angels do not marry, not are given in marriage. (Matthew 22:30). Messiah has a bride (Revelation 21:9)

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but Butters who do you understand the bride of Christ to be?

fts

Butters

The bride is hopefully millions of saved people who are his disciples, joint heirs in the kingdom grafted to Abraham's lovely bosom. Wouldn't you like to be a bosom too?

zeroday

Wouldn't you like to be a bosom too?

UHHH YESSSSSS.....I like DR PEPPER also...

Little Bo Peep

The WT has made changes to this belief from its beginning as with so many other things, as here noted:

Not the Son of God - WT Nov 1879 p4

Jesus not an angel - WT March 1883 p456

The Pope of Rome - The Finished Mystery, 1926 Edition, p188

Jesus - Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985 p218

This info was from a site we found in 2005. Because most references are old, you'll need to go to Watchtower reprints for confirmation. The site was

geocities.com/athens/parthenon/7831/light

Basically, it is because they say it is, no scriptures are needed, otherwise, how could the same scriptures be used for all the different beliefs? You can never cound on the WT to have the same explaination for very long on much of anything, even those beliefs one has held for a lifetime.

Peep

zeroday

Wouldn't you like to be a bosom too?

Let's get back to: Wouldn't you like to be a bosom to?

michael/jesus

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