Questions="dishonest baiting"? (page 2)

Julie

Bridgette-

Yes, use "biblegod" freely. I got it from a fun poster on the old H2O named Axel. Really wish he's have made the migration.

Silverleaf--

Thanks.

Love to see more insights on the issue from everyone, take care all--

Julie, strong advocate of independent thinking

Rex B13

Where do you want me to follow you, Skally? I'll try almost anything for a pretty girl. ;-)
I'm not at all sure what you want from your post.
Rex

julie, you picked out mt 2 favourite accounts there. the she-bear maulings and the census. the census one is even more amazing when jehovah sits david down and gives him 3 options for punishment, all of which would affect the PEOPLE of course, not david. and david gets to CHOOSE which one! he picks the pestilence because the other 2 would be delivered by other hands and the pestilence would be delivered by jehovah himself so he figures he might get some slack cut by this merciful god. HELLO!? DAVID? think about the conversation youre having with this merciful god!

go ahead, kids. read this again for yourself. its loads of fun!

mox

Farkel

: Another fact is that biblegod is portrayed as very angy. Anger is obviously one of mankind's basest imperfections. How can a Supreme Being fall victim to imperfect man's base, unenlightened weaknesses so often?

"Fear Jehovah, your God."
"Love God with your whole soul."
"There is no fear in love"

It's all bullshit.

Farkel

"When in doubt, duck!"

AmazingProgeny

Hi Julie,

I don't know if we have met before or not. It's been a while since I've posted and I only posted a few times. I am Amazing and AmazingEx's daughter.

I am a Christian and I have an answer for you that might not satisfy you, but it is the best one I have.

I do not take every single word of the Bible literally and I find many of the Old Testament stories to be hideous. I don't think God really had anything at all to do with these stories, if they are true. I think that the writers gave God the credit for the decisions in order to take the blame away from themselves. I think the stories are used to scare people into worshipping God. Fear is an often used and very effective motivator. The JWs are just one great example of this.

This is my feelings on the subject. Forgive me if I haven't made sense anywhere, I had a monstrous headache and now have the side effects of my medicine to deal with.

AmazingProgeny

siegswife

Daniel 6:24 What did the wives and children of Daniel's accusers do? Why were they slaughtered also? If that's mercy I will take heartlessness any day.

***Wasn't it the king of Babylon that threw those people in there? I didn't realize that he had been converted.

2Kings 2:23,24 Is this how we treat children acting like children?

***I don't know about you, but my mother used to 'goddam' me all the time when I was a kid. It seems that Elijah's had a bit more power to it, although I did have some troubles in my late teens and early adulthood....

1Chronicles 21:14 70,000 people die by God's hand because David took a census. I fail to see the enlightenment here. Maybe someone as all-knowing as you can explain it to simple little me.

***Let's see, first of all, Israel had been told not to do it. At 1Chronicles 21:3 It says that Joab pointed out to David that it was wrong, and it seems that all of Israel knew that because at 1Chronicles 21:6 it states that the tribes of Levi and Benjamin refused to participate because they knew that Joab was right. From this I can only surmise that these people had a choice NOT to participate in the census since they knew that God said not to do it. It sounds like the elders (?) of the tribes had the choice to have their tribe participate or not. I would even venture to guess that individual people could have opted not to be counted.
If you told your kids not to do something, warned them of the consequences and some of them did it anyway, shouldn't those kids received the consequences that they were warned about? If you didn't do what you told them you would do, wouldn't the kids that listened see that there was really no benefit for them to listen to you since you didn't do what you said?

chappy

AmazingProgeny, you hold the view that I feel the majority of Christians have. The radicals and fundies scream the loudest and lead most people that theirs is the prevailing attitude. If my belief in the Creator depended exclusively on the bible, I would be in dire straits.

later,
chappy

Hi Julie, LTNS!

blondie

I found the census account difficult to understand and I still don't...I'd like the "rest of the story"

David had a choice of:

1. A famine for three years,
2. The sword of Israel’s enemies overtaking Israel for three months,
3. A pestilence for three days.

1 Chronicles 21:13
13 So David said to Gad: “It is very distressing to me. Please, let me fall into the hand of Jehovah, for very many are his mercies; but into the hand of man do not let me fall.”

Amazingly, the Bible does not state why taking a census was wrong. Bible commentators have suggested that David erred in not collecting the head tax. Or that David was showing weakness in trying to find out how large his military force was, instead of depending on God for victory no matter what its size. Yet others say that David might have given in to human pride, wanting to be able to boast over Israel’s importance and glory. But the Bible is silent on this.

Was that unjust to kill 70,000 innocent people for the king’s error?

This is the WTS explanation given.

“The Bible plainly shows that we all are sinners deserving of death; it is only by God’s undeserved kindness that we live. (Rom. 3:23; 6:23; Lam. 3:22, 23) So those who died had no special “right” to life. Additionally, can any human today say for sure that those 70,000 were not guilty of some serious sin not mentioned in the historical record?”

Imagine recording that 70,000 people were executed but not recording why the census was a sin and and how 70,000 people shared in David’s sin.

Julie

Hey everyone--

I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on the matter. AmazingP, it is nice to hear some honesty on the matter from a believer. I'm glad there are some Christians out there who don't necessarily consider all the barbarism in the bible to be holy or enlightened/inspired or even truthful and they're honest enough to admit it. A refreshing change from those who would defend such as God's doing and reasonable to boot. I am not at all surprised to see Chappy have a similar view as you he's always a laid back sort of open-minded believer. You know, an honest sort. Thanks to you both for your views.

Siegswife:

***Let's see, first of all, Israel had been told not to do it. At 1Chronicles 21:3 It says that Joab pointed out to David that it was wrong, and it seems that all of Israel knew that because at 1Chronicles 21:6 it states that the tribes of Levi and Benjamin refused to participate because they knew that Joab was right. From this I can only surmise that these people had a choice NOT to participate in the census since they knew that God said not to do it. It sounds like the elders (?) of the tribes had the choice to have their tribe participate or not. I would even venture to guess that individual people could have opted not to be counted.
If you told your kids not to do something, warned them of the consequences and some of them did it anyway, shouldn't those kids received the consequences that they were warned about? If you didn't do what you told them you would do, wouldn't the kids that listened see that there was really no benefit for them to listen to you since you didn't do what you said?

Don't you think death is a little harsh for being counted? Couldn't they have been struck mute or blind or something? Maybe arthritis or premature hair loss...countless lesser, more reasonable punishments for being counted.

While I agree that children should receive consequences if forewarned I can't imagine wielding the threat "..or I'll kill you...". I am more likely to point out "if you do not do this now you won't have time later for that". The consequences of their own choices not the consequence of my anger. The earlier they learn that their choices result in consequences beyond the pleasing of a parent the healthier I say. My 2 cents on the matter.

Thanks all for your thoughts--and the refreshingly civil tone--
Julie

Questions="dishonest baiting"?

Silverleaf

Julie

Rex B13

Moxy

Farkel

AmazingProgeny

siegswife

chappy

blondie

Julie

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