such as laying hands and spitting
I was watching a "going tribal" show and and African healer did the very same thing.
Jesus .... the first great magician?
by collegegirl21 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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hmike
Magic arts, sorcery, etc. were an important part of the ancient cultures, so it makes sense that the Jews and, later, Christians, would promote their God by including accounts of how His power was shown superior to other powers. Whether these events actually occurred or were made up is an issue that can't be answered here. In either case, I think the imitation of methods employed by other groups was all part of showing up the others, and it works both ways, as in the case of Pharoah's magicians trying to match or outdo Moses. Perhaps the gospel accounts show Jesus using methods that were in use by other practioners at the time. Maybe he praised the centurion's faith because, instead of asking Jesus to use one of these methods, he expected the authority of his word would traverse the distance to produce the desired effect (as the word of God did at creation).
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Narkissos
hmike,
Even more than gestures, performative speech is what magic is essentially about... in Egypt it is Ptah, the god of magic, who creates by the sole power of his word...
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free2beme
More likely then not, he was a legend with abilities that were as unreal as him. They were stories passed from one generation, to the next, with no fact checking and no real personal accounts. In the end, people just came to accept them, as Christianity became the larger religion of the day.
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hmike
Narkissos,
Do you think the Jewish writers got the idea for this creative aspect of Elohim from the Egyptians' Ptau?
Even though the references to Ptau predate E, or even the time of Moses, I wonder where the Egyptians got that concept (creation by the spoken word) from.
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Leolaia
The spitting motif also appears in stories about healings performed by the Emperor Vespasian.
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Narkissos
hmike,
It is an oft-noted parallelism and quite a possible derivation, although it is not necessarily direct influence: Genesis 1 (P) is late, but the cultural connection between Israel and Egypt never really ceased. However, it's a very natural idea, as everywhere the notion of performative or creative word is linked to magic.
Besides the "magical word," the creation narratives generally use three kind of actions, all of which are (of course) reflections of human activity: (1) war (Baal vs. Yamm, Marduk vs. Tiamat, cf. Yhwh vs. the "Sea" or "Leviathan"); (2) excretion or emanation, the breath, sperm, spit, tears of the gods producing beings; (3) craft, such as building or pottery. All those categories are found in the Bible texts as well.
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hmike
When I look in the gospel accounts, I see the words Jesus speaks when performing miraculous acts are in the form of simple, brief, straight-forward commands--to evil spirits, living things, or elements in nature--or proclamations that the situations had been altered to his will. There are no incantations, no formulaic recitations, no rituals, no preparations, no preparatory meditation, no calling on other powers (except in one case, where Jesus makes it clear it was not for his benefit, but rather for the listeners)--just simple commands given to deal with situations encountered in the course of normal activities, in public areas with witnesses, with no indications that the commands were given in any language other than what would have been common there at the time. He acts with compassion, not for spectacle, even if some would take the spectacular as proof (he resisted the challenge to provide a "sign"). His words are given with the appropriate firmness of an imperative statement, perhaps much like one of us telling a stray dog to "Go home!"
I see that words are a part of the action, but not the essential ingredient. Anybody can say the words. Anybody can give the commands. But enlisted men can't command officers, and slaves can't command their masters. What makes things happen is the authority behind the words, as the sons of Sceva learned (Acts 19).
I see the accounts of the miraculous works of Jesus are meant to testify to the authority of Jesus, whether we believe them to be real events or not--authority over the spiritual realm, over the plant and animal kingdom, and over the forces of nature. Those familiar with the Scriptures would recognize the parallels with the works of Yahweh:
Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. Matt. 8:26b
You rule over the surging sea;
when its waves mount up, you still them. Ps. 89:9
He [Yahweh] stilled the storm to a whisper;
the waves of the sea were hushed. Ps. 109:29
And if Jesus had Yahweh's authority over creation, certainly he had authority to forgive sins and teach about how to live.
I don't know the whole significance of speaking the words. Words are how we communicate information to others. It's only meaningful if the communication is accurately understood by the hearer. Do spirits, plants, and inanimate objects need physical communication? I can't see how, but the words do serve as a perceivable link between the source and the object of the power. The words of Jesus expressed his will, so when circumstances were altered, it's clear to those present that Jesus was the initiator of the change--there's no question of who was responsible.
I think this is the same intent of Genesis 1--to show the authority of God. I think this account is about the authority of God over nature which the ancient author wrote about in a way he and others understood, rather than about the process of creation. (It would be interesting to speculate about how this might actually represent physical processes in the formation of the universe. What are words but sound generated by vibrations of the vocal cords. Sounds are waves traveling in a medium. These waves transfer energy. What if the medium was a cloud of hydrogen gas--"without form and void"--in empty space. Wavefronts of certain frequencies propagating in this medium…molecules absorbing energy...well, pure speculation, and maybe no scientific principles we know of to explain it. I'm just suggesting the ancients may have written down something that had an alternative scientific meaning they would never have comprehended. Of course, that would have required some kind of divine influence on the original human source.)
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Narkissos
hmike:
When I look in the gospel accounts, I see the words Jesus speaks when performing miraculous acts are in the form of simple, brief, straight-forward commands--to evil spirits, living things, or elements in nature--or proclamations that the situations had been altered to his will. There are no incantations, no formulaic recitations, no rituals, no preparations, no preparatory meditation, no calling on other powers (except in one case, where Jesus makes it clear it was not for his benefit, but rather for the listeners)--just simple commands given to deal with situations encountered in the course of normal activities, in public areas with witnesses, with no indications that the commands were given in any language other than what would have been common there at the time.
They brought to him a deaf man who had an impediment in his speech; and they begged him to lay his hand on him. He took him aside in private, away from the crowd, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spat and touched his tongue. Then looking up to heaven, he sighed and said to him, "Ephphatha," that is, "Be opened." And immediately his ears were opened, his tongue was released, and he spoke plainly. -- Mark 7:32ff
Some people brought a blind man to him and begged him to touch him. He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village; and when he had put saliva on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, "Can you see anything?" And the man looked up and said, "I can see people, but they look like trees, walking." Then Jesus laid his hands on his eyes again; and he looked intently and his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly. -- 8.22ff
When he had said this, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva and spread the mud on the man's eyes, saying to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which means Sent). Then he went and washed and came back able to see. -- John 9:6f
I agree those "magical" features are the exception rather than the rule; moreover the Markan ones are systematically edited in Matthew and Luke; but they are all the more noteworthy imo.
Anybody can say the words. Anybody can give the commands. But enlisted men can't command officers, and slaves can't command their masters. What makes things happen is the authority behind the words, as the sons of Sceva learned (Acts 19).
The case of Mark 9:17ff is also interesting from this perspective:
Someone from the crowd answered him, "Teacher, I brought you my son; he has a spirit that makes him unable to speak; and whenever it seizes him, it dashes him down; and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid; and I asked your disciples to cast it out, but they could not do so." He answered them, "You faithless generation, how much longer must I be among you? How much longer must I put up with you? Bring him to me." 0 And they brought the boy to him. When the spirit saw him, immediately it convulsed the boy, and he fell on the ground and rolled about, foaming at the mouth. Jesus asked the father, "How long has this been happening to him?" And he said, "From childhood. It has often cast him into the fire and into the water, to destroy him; but if you are able to do anything, have pity on us and help us." Jesus said to him, "If you are able!--All things can be done for the one who believes." Immediately the father of the child cried out, "I believe; help my unbelief!" When Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "You spirit that keeps this boy from speaking and hearing, I command you, come out of him, and never enter him again!" After crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out, and the boy was like a corpse, so that most of them said, "He is dead." But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he was able to stand. When he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, "Why could we not cast it out?" He said to them, "This kind can come out only through prayer."
Literary analysis suggests a deliberate pattern in Mark: the miracles are increasingly difficult as the story progresses. This last one is also remarkable for the contrast with the independent (and implicitly successful) exorcist in v. 38ff.
I see the accounts of the miraculous works of Jesus are meant to testify to the authority of Jesus, whether we believe them to be real events or not--authority over the spiritual realm, over the plant and animal kingdom, and over the forces of nature. Those familiar with the Scriptures would recognize the parallels with the works of Yahweh:
Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. Matt. 8:26b
You rule over the surging sea;
when its waves mount up, you still them . Ps. 89:9
He [Yahweh] stilled the storm to a whisper;
the waves of the sea were hushed. Ps. 109:29
Those literary parallels are very telling indeed, and imo point to a completely different kind of "miracles" -- Jesus acting not as a magician with limited power dependent on a superior source but as a god with his own absolute authority. When you consider the non-Biblical parallels upstream of the OT parallels (for instance the creative struggle and victory of Baal, the storm-god, with Yamm, the primeval Sea-Chaos in the Ugaritic Baal cycle) it becomes even clearer.
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Dansk
JH:
and have sex forever.
Are you thinking of Mohammed?
Ian