"Society for the Elimination of Grammatical Gender as a Noun-Class System in European Languages"
LOL!! I would say then I am proud of the English for their fine accomplishment.
Born Gay?
by Sam87 67 Replies latest jw friends
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Leolaia
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hambeak
In response to Daves' comment: Weigh the costs! If your family are all jw's then you can expect to be totally isolated from them. If it is possible to move away and be your self you will probably feel better. So called friends that don't know how you really are will shun you in a heartbeat so they really are not your friends. If you come out you will find most people really don't care one way or the other.
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Qcmbr
Your gender is defined by you gentics 100% - when you visit the bathroom you know your gender with no doubt (there are some extreme examples of people with a medical condition but that is well documented.)
When we throw this topic around we are discussing choice. The bizarre argument about not being able to choose who you are attracted to is a lie. When you get married you make a conscious decision to deny all feelings for others and commit yourself to one person only. It is perfectly possible to close off your feelings or desires - it is a permission of the will however, we live in a society that is all about gratification of every thought, whim or desire that wanders across our minds. We all know that sexual feelings can be learnt just as any appetite of the body (sheep eyeballs are a delicacy to some) and also we know that many abnormal behaviours result from a psychological source and I suspect that almost all 'gay' tendencies as all 'straight' tendencies are a result of a choices we make.
Before puberty I was not at all interested in girls/boys (along with the majority of children I would suggest) but that didn't make me gay (or straight), when I hit puberty I went through a very confusing and scary experience where I suddenly had sensations I had no preparation for and didn't quite know what they meant. I found puberty to be a traumatic time when not only was my body changing but my brain was also re-wiring itself and I displayed several 'mad' behaviours as a result of my brain chemistry (acute paranoia about my looks, being very rude to my family without actually feeling bad toward them, massive mood swings between naive happy anticipation and numbing self hatred) - I do think the teenage years are a short term form of madness. It is no surprise to me that many come out of that scenario with a confused sexuality especially in a society that thrusts choice upon the ones who are most confused. I find the moral ambivalence toward gender during teenage years the equivelant of shouting to the man on a bridge about to jump - 'go on make the choice its OK, you choose, if your life's rubbish its fine to jump'.
Now to confront the idea that people say they 'knew' they were gay at a very early age - I say bull - I would suggest that having found themselves having made a gay lifestyle choice they then retrospectively find proof in their past. Hell if I wanted to be gay I could look back on my childhood and find times when I didn't find women attractive but definately chose to hang out with other boys and could then make the leap that I must have known even then how I'd be now - tosh - children don't decide who they will find attractive or 'know' anything is right or wrong at that age. All I ever knew was that sex was some arcane mystic experience that adults had and it was all disgusting - 'you mean my parents do that ewwww!'. During puberty I found out (to a lesser extent!) what all the fuss was about but unfortunately I still feel a bit wigged out by the thought of my parents...OK I'm not going there.
Now I have nothing against people who choose to be gay, as has been amply stated on this forum people make choices and we really only need to worry about those decsions made by the person in the mirror. I think it is wrong to discriminate against someone for their lifestyle choice but I do have an issue with arguing its natural (sex is natural but penguins getting the wrong hole does not constitute the right to wear a gimp mask, abuse vegetables nor for men and women to justify their same sex decisions - why do you need a penguin as the excuse? Single sex creatures are not an excuse to avoid all relationships of a non-magazine kind) I would have more respect if people who chose to be gay just said so rather than pretending that somewhere there is a part of the brain that is sending messages saying - I gave you boy body parts but I'm gonna make your consciousness female. If I was having feelings toward a bloke I'd want to find out why since I know my genetics couldn't be responsible, my body couldn't be responsible (its just not built for men) and so I'd be looking at what was going on in my head that was making me feel that way. Of course that get's people upset because that entails some kind of responsibility for our choices and like I said we are a society that wants to gratify anything but remove all responsibility for that choice. People don't like to feel they are to blame for their gratification of urges.
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Rabbit
Qcmbr
If I was having feelings toward a bloke I'd want to find out why since I know my genetics couldn't be responsible, my body couldn't be responsible (its just not built for men) and so I'd be looking at what was going on in my head that was making me feel that way.
Wow ! What a concept...you would look inside your own head to figure out what "...was making me feel that way."
Why would you do that ? Why not just let others explain what you should believe about your own true feelings that are happen inside your skull ? You cannot possibly know your own mind, so from now on I'll take over 'cause I know best
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Rabbit
Qcmbr
If I was having feelings toward a bloke I'd want to find out why since I know my genetics couldn't be responsible, my body couldn't be responsible (its just not built for men) and so I'd be looking at what was going on in my head that was making me feel that way.
Wow ! What a concept...you would look inside your own head to figure out what "...was making me feel that way."
Why would you do that ? Why not just let others explain what you should believe about your own true feelings that are happen inside your skull ? You cannot possibly know your own mind, so from now on I'll take over 'cause I know best
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Qcmbr
So Rabitt - in a stroke of genius you dismiss the entire field of physcological studies.
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katiekitten
Yes its definately true.
I was always a happy baby, and I still love a real belly laugh now. Id say I was definately gay.
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Qcmbr
Here's a simple example from my life:
For over three years I suffered intense panic attacks where I would hyperventilate and feel un unavoidable urge to get out into open space away from people. It was ruining my life as the school bus journey, social occasions, assemblies etc.. all could provoke this extreme feelings that had a very very physical and emotional effect upon me. I could not understand it, I thought that was just the way I was and that I was just going a bit bonkers. I then spent some time with a psychiatrist who walked me through all the stresses in my life and explained how I could be causing the symptoms myself without actually wanting to. With the knowledge that I was a validated person free to choose how I responded to the signals that preceded these attacks he gave me the tools to overcome an often crippling illness. I also learnt just how powerful the mind is and how the body can respond in quite unexpected ways. That one single visit to the psychiatrist freed me from a mental illness that was plauging my life.
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Rabbit
So Rabitt - in a stroke of genius you dismiss the entire field of physcological studies.
If that's what you've gotten from what I said...I've proved my point. See what happens when you try to tell folks "how" they must be thinking? If you have the luxury of figuring out whether you are gay or not...I think everyone else should have that right, too.
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Qcmbr
I just think we are responsible for who we are and who we become. Who we are is the sum of many factors and when we talk about such concepts as attraction these areas seem far more influenced by environment than biology (we feel revulsion at paedophilia, we prefer certain currently fashionable bodytypes, we imagine sex more than we do it - all non-biological responses but learnt from our surroundings.) There is no stigma in suggesting that someone feels or acts a certain way due to some psychological causeative effects - in fact its dangerous to say anything else otherwise we truly aren't responsible for our actions.