by Honesty 34 Replies latest jw friends
False Prophecy - and bring their actual words in print, if possible.
So, did the generation that was aware enough to sell watchtowers in 1914 see the end of this system of things?
Did millions living then never die?
Were the "days" of creation 7,000 years or not?
Did 1975 mark the end of 6,000 years of mans existence on earth or not?
If the above cannot be answered, then do as the Bible says:
Stone them with rocks.
Thanks!!! I'll call him and see if it's the 'Bible Teach' book.Honesty, don't hit them hard at first, they will cut and run if you do. I think using their own literature such as the book your friend is stuying at this time will make it hard for them to avoid your counter questions right out of the book.
Blueblades
My friend is pretty sharp. He says the Bible is the real thing and if they have to use any 'aids' to understand God's message something is very wrong. They have been using only their Bibles. That makes it somewhat easier but also harder. Easier because their out-of-context teachings can be blown out of the water. Harder because they believe the Watchtower above the Bible so no matter what I show them they still have the 'mentality' that's keeping their minds closed.
I can't stress enough how much these kind of discussions will go totally sour without the correct plan.
Remember that JWs do not respect anything other than their own publications. Anything that is from another source (scandals about the U.N. and stuff like that) as well as discussions about their poor Bible interpretation will only end in frustration.
I'm more o a believer in using ONLY their publications. Asking tough questions about the NWT by using the Kingdom Interlinear, or by bringing out older publications that show they are liars seems to be the only thing you can use that has the possibility to expose the WTS. No doctrine, no extra information that hasn't come from the societies own mouth.
Just my opinion, but I think anything else is a waste of time.
Personally I would almost go the other way around (UN then blood). The WTS has admitted that they were an NGO, but they haven't admitted that their blood policy is wrong (outright - however it has changed over the years).
I'd start out with the letter from the UN saying that they were an NGO and the time period and get their reaction (which will be, "There's no way!") then I'd get them to keep that reaction in mind and go through the criterea for being an NGO, such as agreeing to the charter and policies of the UN and to promote knowledge of the UN by printed material. Then after doing that, I'd bring out the letter from the WTS (I have a copy I can scan and email you) that says "Yes, we were an NGO but it was for a library card." They'll say, "there you go, there was a good reason for it." That's when you ask them if they think that God would think that agreeing to the policies and charter of the UN is acceptable in order to gain access to a library, which on a side note you could get every book from it without stepping foot into the UN building.
Kwin
I agree with Drew. Stick to familiar territory or they will run. By tha way, if you want to discuss the blood issue, the Nov. Km has an insert dedicated to "fractions". It might be a good way to introduce the "ham sandwich".
Thanks Guys and Girls. I don't want to win the battle but lose the war with them.
It would be great if they bothe saw the Light. One of them has 2 daughters and 3 or 4 grandchildren who are ripe for exorcising out of the cult if the grandpa sees the Light. He was the original patriarch who became a JW in the 40's when they all were taught that Armageddon was only months away.
or should I go ahead and apply full throttle and give them a little demonstration of the wacky blood policy and the UN affiliation and pray they will not run scared?
Put the pedal to the metal!...LOL
I agree with Drew, as well. I don't think they will be mentally up to a multiple point discussion and will fairly quickly get the hint they are going to badgered into leaving, a feeling few JWs will tolerate for more than a minute.
I understand that your friend thinks Bible study aids are (or should be) unnecessary. But he will never become a JW without changing that opinion. I think there is enough to hang them in their own primary study aids that there would be no need to step outside their comfort zone.
Sun Tsu would argue that removing the supports of an enemy with seeming ease, in an environment where he feels himself most safe, will shake his confidence more than anything else could.
This line of thinking is in favor of using their primary study publications and sticking to a single issue, or maybe only two issues. After all, you aren't introducing the publication to teach the Bible from it. You are introducing it to challenge their teachings, as to whether or not the teaching have Scriptural basis.
I'm curious about the ham sandwich... When was ham banned? I ate ham many times as a JW.
What an incredible opportunity!
You will be able to show them that you have not fallen away from God or the Bible. That you are kind and considerate. You will be able to show them, just by your life in general, that you are a moral and descent person. Leaving the WTS did not cause you to become a miserable and lousy person.
Most of all, you will be able to show them what a Christian really is!
I would take it slow and be a friend. Don't let them draw you into arguments. Merely point out and discuss things as the Holy Spirit leads you. You may be able to arrange a few more meetings, if you keep it friendly and comfortable. Don't come across as an apostate or opposer. Give them no reason to find fault with you or your behavior. You have a lot to offer. You are going to make a difference, I am sure! My prayers are with you!
Plant those seeds, Honesty!!! Plant those seeds!
