We had a major talk about JWs today.
I couldn't use the UN or pedophiles, as this is 'outside' information, and she would never belive me. Then she would question my source, and I'd be killed by elder firing squad.
We talked about the ark, and how it's not possible. She just ignored me, wanting 'hard evidence'. I should google it or something.
We talked a lot about variations in genetics. She said there are 3 races, white, black, and asian. I think hispanic and middle eastern are also races, but that wasn't an issue. Her theory is that jehovah 'gave' use different races and eye colors (at an unknown point in time after adam and eve) because he liked diversity.
Then we went indepth to, of all things, slantyness of eyes. My whole point was that to get enough different types of horses (i chose them at random), you would need many breeds to get the diversity of today. That would take up SPACE that would be premium on an ark. And since JWs now belive in microevolution (they put it in quotes...It's the same thing as selective breeding, but they wont admit it), but not evolution, I told her that zebras could not appear without other zebras, or AT LEAST two breeds somehow magically capable of spawning zebras after several generations.
Anyways, back to slanty eyes. My arguement was that japanese people have different eyes from chinese. Since "asians are all one race", and there can be no mutation, how did japanese get different eyes?
She squirmed her way around, and I gave up on it, because she wouldn't back down, despite not understanding the subject.
I had her on evolution though. I got a book for homeschool that has an entire chapter on the subject. And neatly summed up right there is several pages of how scientists have come to evolution as a conclusion. Naturally, she DID NOT HEAR A WORD, and irritated me. I was smart-ass about it though, so I don't entirely blame her :P .
Now she eats me alive.
She tells me that they are right, because only they do what the bible says. They are the only ones going door to door across the planets.
I stumbled around and made an ass of myself.
So I pull out my 'secret weapon'. The one thing that can destroy a JW in one shot. If 1914 was the year they were to have the 'proper food at the proper time', why were they teaching lies like the cross, blood, etc.
First off, I stumbled around that too, because I couldn't find a way to effeciently convey my words (english is not my first language, baby-talk is).
She tells me that "they were right about the big things, wrong about the little thigns. Only the big things matter".
I realised it had holes in it, and part of the reason I used it is to refine it. Now i'm going to abandon it as my 'secret weapon'.
I was scared for a little while. She actually had me beliving her! I of course clung to my science book to retain sanity :P .
Now I want something I can really argue with. Something that I could think up, so no stories or whatnot. Since I can't get on apostate websites (or the internet at all :P), I can't use anything that I couldn't think up myself.
I've got her beat in science. I happen to be good at it. I've read through the evolution magazine a thousand times, and have it analized in every way. I have deemed it foolish. My only safe haven for my own anti-jw beliefs is evolution.
And it has me feeling I might be wrong. Even though I can feel deep down I'm not.
But I DID take some good advice. Afterwards, I hugged her and told her I loved her. I want her to know that despite driving me insane, depriving me of my human rights, and dragging me through those meetings, I still love mommy.
These things I write are painfully wrong. I hope you get some sort of sick masochistic pleasure out of torturing your eyeballs reading through them :P .
Mom nearly ate me alive!
by Anony-Mouse 17 Replies latest jw friends
-
Anony-Mouse
-
skyking
Take her to DNA and the history of man that will help you. Remeber DNA is Gods finger print.
-
Kudra
Anony-mouse you are really cute.
Be nice to your mommy.
Also, you can get on talk.origins.org for really great evolution info, as a lot of their info is organized in a way where you can find "creationist" points to refute. i.e. you can look up a specific question your mom has and find an accurate answer.
as to some other issues... go to jwfacts.com and look at "questionable teachings" I understand what you mean about coming up with things that need to seem like you thought of them yourself. a few of the subjects on that site won't fit the bill, but the questionable teachings section is ok, like you might have been thinking that those teachings were questionable anyway...
Also, could you do a research report on the role of the UN in history and accidentally "find out" that the WT was a UN NGO-member? It's right on the UN website, so could totally be something you come across doing a school report.
Best o luck to you,
-K -
bebu
Hi a-m,
2 thoughts:
1) does she know you are online? Or are you expected to stay only on a few sites? I would suggest taking that evolution book and looking up its quotes and references (or find out who else has already done it and posted it online). I believe that this book has misrepresented several scientists. Show her where, and you can prove that the WTS is not being honest to its readers. It is being deceptive. (BTW, the trinity booklet is basically a booklet of misquotes.)
2) If you are allowed to go online, find a good reason for explaining how you discovered the http://www.reexamine.org/quotes website, and show it to her. If you are unfamiliar with it, check it out and you will find a treasure trove of ONLY WTS materials... sorted by subject so that you can see how unstable they are. That can also help shore up your points re 1914. If they are wrong about so many things, why follow them at all?
bebu
-
jaguarbass
My only safe haven for my own anti-jw beliefs is evolution.
And it has me feeling I might be wrong. Even though I can feel deep down I'm not.Good luck to you in escaping the witlesses. If you think hispanic is a race your way off on evolution. Hispanic is more of a political designation pertaining to the usa. The battle between England and Spain in colonizing this country. Spain is a european country the people there are just like Italians and Germans and English.
-
moshe
I like to use TV shows. JW's have a list of things they are doing that they like to show to John Q Public proving they are God's only true religion on Earth. Who made up this list? Why the JW leaders in NY- that was convenient wasn't it? I could win at Jeopardy every week, if I made up the questions for Alex Trebek. I could win at "who wants to be a Millionaire", if I made up the question list. Who gave JW's the right to make up a list that uniquely fits their Organization.Nobody! Do you see works of charity on the JW lists anywhere?- NO! Yet other Christian religions, if asked to make a list of God's commands for his Chrurch would likely include it near the top. SO Jw's resort to sidestepping the lack of soup kitchens, women's shelters, etc by saying "We do our charitable works in private- we don't blow our horn out of pride, etc. They completly evade the real issue --"IS IT A Command from God to do Works of Charity for the Poor?"or not? How do JW's rank in this area- #1 or at the bottom?
JW's are experts at using the strawman technique to make themselves look good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument
You can outwit them, good luck.
-
return visitor
A.M.
So I pull out my 'secret weapon'. The one thing that can destroy a JW in one shot. If 1914 was the year they were to have the 'proper food at the proper time', why were they teaching lies like the cross, blood, etc.
That should be your secret weapon, *1914*. For that to be the year they were to have the "food at the proper time" Jerusalem would have to have fallen in 607. I chalenge you to find a sorce outside the WTS who uses this date. You won't be able to because evidence shows that it actually fell in 586BCE not 607. When I realized this I was free of the WTS. If the WTS is wrong about this date,607, then 1914 is wrong, 1919 is wrong, Christ didn't start ruling in heaven, no faithfull and discrete slave at this time, the whole premise crumbles.
good luck,
RV
-
jwfacts
One of the big things that they believed until 1950 was that Jesus should be worshipped. This is now something that is considered idolatry.
The cross is something that you could research from non JW sources. See http://jwfacts.com/index_files/cross.htm Compare the Watchtower pictures with the scripture John 20:25; "unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nail s and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe".
The flood is a great thing. There is endless reasons to prove there was never a global flood. Research it and discuss it with her. Remember that the flood means all human history was wiped out and started only 4000 years ago. Such as:
- The line of Egyptian kings we no of date back more than 4000 years
- The number of animals that could fit on the ark was very limited, once accounting for a years supply of food and water as well.
- How did marsupials get to Australia. Did Koalas paddle across in canoes. Somehow they got to Aus in 4000 years without living traces and children in other countries.
- There are volcanic ash mountains in France that are millions of years old. A global flood would have washed the ash away.
- No wooden boat the size of an ark has or could be made as its size twists too much and would leak.
If it is just the big things that matter, why are other religions wrong that follow JW big things, like Christadelphians, Bible Students and some Adventists. These do not believe in the Trinity, believe in paradise earth, dont go to war etc.
BTW It is unlikely that you will ever convince your mother, but at least you can show her you have good reasons for your stand.
-
Jeffro
That should be your secret weapon, *1914*. For that to be the year they were to have the "food at the proper time" Jerusalem would have to have fallen in 607. I chalenge you to find a sorce outside the WTS who uses this date. You won't be able to because evidence shows that it actually fell in 586BCE not 607. When I realized this I was free of the WTS. If the WTS is wrong about this date,607, then 1914 is wrong, 1919 is wrong, Christ didn't start ruling in heaven, no faithfull and discrete slave at this time, the whole premise crumbles.
Actually it was 587. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/117184/2056627/post.ashx#2056627
-
jgnat
She tells me that they are right, because only they do what the bible says. They are the only ones going door to door across the planets.
First of all, they are missing some pretty big countries. Most of the Muslim ones, and China too. There are more active missionary activities in those countries, not covered by the witnesses. As for literature distribution, the gideons have the Witnesses beat hands down. Annually, The Gideons International is placing and distributing more than 63,000,000 Scriptures worldwide.
http://www.shorttermmissions.com
www.gideons.orgShe tells me that "they were right about the big things, wrong about the little thigns. Only the big things matter".
Ask her what the big things are. Trinity? Hellfire? Heavenly destination? Neutrality? Anything else?
Trinity - there are other non-trinitarian denominations, such as the pesky Bible Students and the Christadelphians. The Bible Students more closely follow the original teachings of the society than the modern-day Witnesses.
Hellfire - Is Armageddon any better? Why flames in the Young People Ask book?
Heavenly destination - only if the teaching of the exclusivity of the 144,000 stands up. Exactly where is the great throne located, and how could the "great crowd" be there if they have no heavenly hope? http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/144000.html
Neutrality - again, the Witnesses are not the only religions neutral in war. Though I would say the religions who decry war do for pacifist reasons, rather than the WT stance of remaining separate from the "world"
As for where you GOT this information? How about the local library, Encyclopedia Brittanica, or the local bus stop?