If you experienced a supernatural event, could you convince anyone?

by free2beme 44 Replies latest jw friends

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  SWALKER

  It's so hard to discuss this subject on this forum for some reason...there are those that have never experienced anything out of the ordinary in their lives and so don't believe in anything supernatural. I don't post some of my own experiences because, like so many others, I don't want to feel the heat! It's too bad, really, that we aren't allowed to share these things as all the "scientists" come out of the closet and "explain" how it's all in our heads.

  I grew up in a one of the older towns in the south....founded in the 1700's....there's a lot of history here. Going to school, all my friends had a story or two to tell about things that they had seen or had happen to them. You just can't have that many people tell you that many stories without realizing that something supernatural was out there.

  I went to a very old school that was considered to have a "ghost." Strange things would happen, that just couldn't be explained. Teachers, students, and janitors all had experiences. I ended up in a 6th grade classroom where the cloakroom had a "ghost." We would all go in there and hang up our coats....no one would be in there....the door was at the front of the room and everyone was in there seats. We'd hear a noise and the teacher would stop and say, "it must be our ghost at work again!" She would then call a few of us up with her to look in the cloakroom to see what he/she had done now, and the time I looked all the coats had been taken off the hooks and dropped on the floor. Sometimes things would be knocked off shelves in there, etc. We'd hear a crash and the teacher would always check and see what had happened. She didn't act scared, but rather just accepted it as a part of class....

  (There was no way in or out of the cloakroom other than the classroom, but I'm sure some here will have a scientific explanation! These were the days when everyone was sitting quietly at their desks not making any noise, doing their work assignments.)

  Because of so many things I have seen and heard over my lifetime, I do believe in a spirit world. I don't know what role they play in our lives...I'm still waiting to see that played out.

  Swalker
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  skyking

  What amazes me is people that say crap like that. Kid-A I dare you to read this link: http://www.csicop.org/si/9603/claims.html

  Here is part of the link:

  Most of these purveyors of psychic myths should not be taken seriously. However, when one of the persons making extreme claims is Jessica Utts, who is a professor of statistics at the University of California at Davis, this is another matter. Utts has impressive credentials and she marshals the evidence for her case in an effective way. So it is important to look at the basis for what I believe are extreme claims, even for a parapsychologist. Here is what Utts writes in her report on the Stargate program: Using the standards applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that psychic functioning has been well established. The statistical results of the studies examined are far beyond what is expected by chance
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  free2beme

  I just want to make clear, I did not have an experience like the one I used as an example. I just wanted to use it as a, "what if?" I agree that if there was a God who wanted to get such a message across, as mentioned, it would be cruel to expect only one man to do it, as is shown in many Bible examples. Now this thread has also taken another direction, that I am very emotional connected too. Which is being a spiritual medium, now that, I accept 110%!

  I to have a problem with people who will spend their life disproving it, in a almost "I can not get it to work, so I will ruin it for others" fashion. I have seen and felt amazing things, believe in the spirit realm, the after life, spirit, energy and a like. I have issues with people who want to disprove them to me. As I never asked them too, or for their information, they just seem so angry and hell bent frustrated about it, that they explode on the issue. Not me, I am calm about it, live with it and live by it each and every day. I do not try to convert anyone to a thinking, but I enjoy talking with people who enjoy the subject. My spouse has learned to accept and trust my feelings, even telling me at times that they feel very fortunate to have someone like me in their life. At the same time, I am very private about it and do not share it with most people. I have seen to many "head exploders" which is what I call skeptics who freak out on the subject and get hostile. Acting as if I am in some sort of proof war with them, where they lay their thoughts out and I am suppose to counter. Most of the time, if I see a thought is heading that way, I ignore them. That is the wonderful part to boards, and the Internet, you can read what you want and leave the rest behind.
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  MsMcDucket

  You know, the day of my mother's death. My daughter said that she had a dream that she heard my sister saying that the funeral was going to be this Saturday. My daughter didn't know that my mother had died. My daughter told me this while on the way to the hospital. I said "No way that it's going to be Saturday. That's just too soon." As soon as we walked in the hospital room, I was told that the funeral was going to be on Saturday.

  Kind of weirded me out! I kept thinking did my mother tell my daughter this.
• 

  LittleToe

  You can't convince anyone. At best you might present your case and they might accept it and convince themselves. The likelihood diminishes when they have more investing in believing the alternative...
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  free2beme

  I think the world has turned into one giant skeptic from all the terrible things religion has done in the name of supernatural events.
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  Abaddon

  If I experienced a supernatural event I SHOULDN'T be able to convince anyone, as if the event was supernatural then it would not be recorded in an unambiguous fashion or repeatable, because it was SUPERnatural.

  If I DID experience a supernatural event I WOULD be able to convince some people, as per Barnum, even though there would be no way for them to determine if I was mistaken, mentaly ill, fraudulent or telling it like it actually was.

  If I did not experience a supernatural event but CLAIMED I did, or that someone else did I WOULD still be able to convince some people, as per Barnum, even though there would be no way for them to determine if I was mistaken, mentally ill, fraudulent or telling it like it actually was.

  What seems to happen in these kind of discussions is this; supernatural event E gets spoken of;

  • Some people say 'E has happened to me'. We will call this group A.
  • Others say 'I believe that E could happen'. We will call this group B.
  • Others say 'no one has yet proved in a scientifically respectable fashion that E could happen or has happened'. We will call this group C.

  Group A feel that group C are saying group A lies. This is untrue. Group C is saying that group A could be lying, mentally ill, mistaken or otherwise unable to prove in a scientifically respectable fashion that E could happen or has happened.

  Group A then enters various arguments, like 'E is not measurable or provable with current technologies'. This typically makes group C point out something along the lines of 'you can observe the effect of gravity and could do prior to Newtonian physics, let alone modern Quantum Mechanics, why is the EFFECT of E not demonstrable in a scientifically respectable fashion'. The different paradigms; the experiential paradigm of the supernaturalists or the evidential paradigm of the skeptics, essentially make the claims and evidences offered by group A totally unsatisfactory for group C, and the evidential demands of group C irrelvent to group A.

  If I had had a premonition it would be hard to pursuade me otherwise. But I haven't and no one has ever proved in a scientifically respectable fashion that they have had one.

  free2beme

  I to have a problem with people who will spend their life disproving it, in a almost "I can not get it to work, so I will ruin it for others" fashion.

  If it IS real, how can someone saying it isn't real 'spoil it for others'? You can tell me you don't believe in sex or alcohol. My enjoyment of sex or alcohol will not be diminished one iota by your disbelief. Anyway, why do you want people of a differing opinion to be silenced?

  I have seen and felt amazing things, believe in the spirit realm, the after life, spirit, energy and a like.

  Yes, and so what? Millions of people have made such claims over history, and many of such experiences are not compatable with yours. Is the paranormal what you WANT it to be, so everyone is right? Like a after-life smorgasboard; "I'll have Valhalla please!" Or were are THEY wrong? Or are YOU wrong? Or all you ALL wrong?

  I have issues with people who want to disprove them to me. As I never asked them too, or for their information, they just seem so angry and hell bent frustrated about it, that they explode on the issue.

  First of all if you don't present your claims for approval or validation they don't get criticised. If you do enter them into lay in a discussion board they will get DISCUSSED. Doh!

  If you cannot PROVE what you claim then why should people's reaction towards your claims be any less critical than their reaction towards someone asking for belief in some un-orthadox get-rich scheme they cannot prove?

  Not me, I am calm about it, live with it and live by it each and every day. I do not try to convert anyone to a thinking, but I enjoy talking with people who enjoy the subject.

  Great for you; do so. If you want discussion in an uncritical environment then you need to seek a forum where this is possible. In a forum such as this it is unreasonable for you to expect uncritical acceptence of all claims - as it wouldn't just be your claims we'd have to be uncritical of.

  It would be the claims of Nessie humters, the UFO-spotters, the 9/11 Conspiracists, Jehovah's Witnesses... if one accepts the idea of uncritical acceptence of all claims then we'd also have to be uncritical about NAMBLA and Holocaust Denial!

  At the same time, I am very private about it and do not share it with most people. I have seen to many "head exploders" which is what I call skeptics who freak out on the subject and get hostile. Acting as if I am in some sort of proof war with them, where they lay their thoughts out and I am suppose to counter. Most of the time, if I see a thought is heading that way, I ignore them. That is the wonderful part to boards, and the Internet, you can read what you want and leave the rest behind.

  If you are asserting something is possible or something happened that defies logic or known phenomena, even if you personally are the most honest person in the known Universe it is perfectly reasonable for people to ask for proof of your claims. Why?

  Because if you WERE the most honest person in the Universe you would STILL be making claims exactly like other less honest people in the Universe. It's not as though the less honest people tell you if they lie, is it?

  We can't just take your word for it, although I am sure you can find places where you can find people who will just take your word for it.

  You also seem to feel that your opinion of what happens to you and why it happens to you is by definition right. Why do you feel confident enough to exclude you being mistaken for some reason?

  I might be a skeptical bastard but at least I know I can be mistaken about stuff; why are claimants of paranormal activity any different?
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  daystar

  I 2nd what LT said.
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  parakeet

  Anyone who experiences what they believe to be a supernatural event shouldn't attempt to convince someone else. Why should anyone who hasn't experienced the same unprovable event alter their own perceptions and beliefs based on hearsay? If God/angels/demons/aliens/whatever have a message they want me to know, then they can tell me personally. Until then, I'll treat accounts of such events with the skepticism they deserve.
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  SixofNine

  "I might be a skeptical bastard but at least I know I can be mistaken about stuff; why are claimants of paranormal activity any different?"

  Abaddon's word's sum up the whole discussion for me. It's a tad irritating to be told you are close-minded by a person who "knows" what the unknowable is. Between a skeptic and a non-skeptic, the skeptic is always the more open minded.