The Bible advances women's rights (page 2)

California Sunshine

Blah....Blah....Blah....Blah

The Bible is mearly a historical document.

Written by "MEN".

minds are like parachutes--they only function when open.

Trilobite

Rex,

You actually seem to have made your own argument for once. Such as it is. That is progress though. You stated:

>This passage, and the one about Lot's daughters speaks to how >important the safety of one's guest was in those days. Guests are >still of prime importance in an arab's household.

Are we to expect the Taleban, who consider Osama bin Laden a guest, to offer their own women up in his place? That seems to have been the practice back in Israel by righteous men such as Lot. Perhaps the FAA should issue regulations that female flight attendants should first be offered to hijackers before further action is pursued?

As for doing my own research on the traditions of the Middle East, of course I have. You dropped neatly into that trap. Did you perchance glean that bit of knowledge from recent TV coverage of Afghanistan? You are right, though, Hebrew customs in many ways did not differ substantially from those of other ancient Middle Eastern people. Women were essentially viewed as being property. That is the only way in which the account of Lot and the one in Judges can be viewed. That is why it is ridiculous to try to apply OT ideas to modern society. We have evolved beyond the primitive notions of the OT. Or would you offer up your daughters or wife (God help her) to appease someone who knocked at your door with a threat?

It may have been a tradition to protect guests, even at great personal expense, but were the guests required to put their own hides first as seems to have been the case in Judges? That aside, if the account is to point up the evil of Israelite society at that point then I simply do not follow how Lot could have been judged "a righteous man" after being prepared to do essentially the same thing. You supply a number of "what ifs" but that is simply to make the Bible conform to your own ideas of what should have been. We are, after all, talking about a guy who, on a different occasion, nailed his own daughters. And let's not forget Judah and his love of hookers. He was a man of great character and was most concerned about his reputation; i.e., that he was always sure to pay for what he got.

That two distinct accounts present two similar scenarios with essentially equivalent reactions indicates that God's people had the same view of women as did everyone else. Or, perhaps, this type of story was a sort of urban legend back then which, like the flood, found its way into print.

If God's standards are so high then why does he change them as human traditions change. Sounds to me like the cart is leading the horses.
T.

Moxy

hey - WAIT a minute rex! finish the story!

the israelites go up to war against the benjamites in this bizarre turn of events. does jehovah help clear up this mess? no, he orders them to go to war! even mistakenly sending them twice when they get their butts kicked (major euphemism considering the number of casualties) if jehovah didnt get involved in the story the way he did then i could accept that this account is an aberration showing people who were just doing some wacky and decidedly ungodly things but that apparently IS NOT THE CASE!

mox

Trilobite

Rex,

ps: I must be getting old. If the time of the Judges was such a low water mark then how come their God was so annoyed that they wanted to change the system and get themselves a King?

Mox,

Good point. What concerned me was that two similar accounts exist, neither of which condemns the action of offering the woemn up to the crowd. One I could live with. Rex shows his hypocrisy by making excuses for Lot just because he was officially labeled righteous but not for this Levite party animal.

T.

julien

I hope the Taliban are reading this thread, there are quite a few yummy bible principles discussed that they could borrow for use on their women.

Seeker

Rex,

Perhaps all of you could answer the post directly the info within, instead of hijacking the thread?

I did, Rex. Just read between the lines of my illustration and you'll see the mistake in reasoning you made. Just because you can find some scriptures favorable to women, it doesn't negate all the scriptures that treat women like dirt.

Tina

Bible advances women's rights? lol

Here's just a few of this so called right advancement:
Ezekiel 9,5-7 Murder and infanticide
Deut.21,10-13 How to prepare your sex slave.
Deut.22,13-21 How to see if your wife is a virgin and if she isn't then kill her.
2 Samuel 20-3 Imprison your sex slaves until they die.
Deut.24-1 A woman can be divorced because her husband feels like it.
Exodus 21-7 Sell your own daughter as a slave.
Deut.22-28+9 A woman has to marry the man who raped her.
Exodus 22-18 Kill a woman with esoteric knowledge.
Gen 19-1 Offer your virgin daughters to be raped.
Numbers 31,17+18 Keep all the virgins as spoils of war but kill all the other women.
Judges 19,22-29 Offer your sex slave to be gang raped,then kill and dismember her when she returns for help.
1 Cor.14-34+5 Women better not speak their mind in public,church,etc.Must remain subservient.
Isaiah 3,16-24 Women who wear cosmetics and jewelry are only whores who deserve to be disfigured.

....... I only mentioned a few bible books here,yanno those 'family values' you'd like to see .(TY Norm).............there's many many more of these womens rights advanced by the bible. Time doesn't allow me to put em all up-it's a lengthy task to say the least.Oh and BTW,it's patriarchal not paternal,the bible even describes it using the word patriarchal.
Keep blustering rex,it helps us show all these nifty 'rights'

Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."

hillary_step

Rex,

Why do you always sound as if you are trying to convince yourself with your own arguments?

If your faith is valid just be happy with that. Why bother provoking situations where you are forced to defend your beliefs, when ultimately you do neither the Bible nor yourself any justice in the way that you defend them.

Sarcasm and personal insult, are really very cheap debating tools and do not win arguments, they actually divert them. Your frequent descent into their use undermines the essence of your own claim, that is, that you worship a God of Love, who you might recall is displeased even if a 'rotten expression' excudes from the lips of one of his followers....remember?

A little more gentleness will buy a lot more understanding.

Kind regards - HS

Jigrigger

Yeah, right Rex,

If a woman's constitution was strong enough to withstand ingesting the toxic concoction that the priest made, then she was innocent. If, however, her body did not agree with this goop she was forced to drink, then - naturally - she was guilty.

We all know that two people could ingest the same substance - one could have a bad reaction to it and to the other it could cause sickness or even death.

Just one example: To some people, peanuts are literally deadly; even trace amounts are dangerous for them, while others suffer no ill consequences at all.

This was a law "God" gave the Israelites to advance women's rights? What a joke!!! Did you notice how the woman was categorized as under "Man's authority"?
Being the Bible thumper that you are, perhaps you can tell us how many times the Bible puts women under the authority of man...

Jrig

AlanF

Hillary_Step said to Rexie:

: Why do you always sound as if you are trying to convince yourself with your own arguments?

Because he is. He has absolutely no personal understanding of the issues. He can't formulate arguments of his own or understand those of people he considers opponents. All he can do is cut and paste material that he only dimly understands. Such is the lot of a JW who descends into believing young-earth creationism. If ever there was a "dog returning to its vomit", this exceeds it by far.

AlanF

The Bible advances women's rights

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