What is the difference between Watchtower RANSOM teaching & other religions

by jwfacts 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    So whats the difference between "inherited" sin and "other" sins ?

    No different really, but in the WTS sense of it, our daily falling short of the mark of perfection is the "inherited" part of our sin.
    This includes bad thoughts of wanting to think for ourselves, imperfect bodies that oversleep and overeat (or under), anything that causes
    a person who is trying to fall short of the righteous and perfect requirements of Almighty God.

    The "other" sins are the ones we (intentionally) allow upon ourselves without doing anything about it-
    Not reading the Bible daily
    Seeking material gain instead of spiritual gain
    Skipping meetings or field service
    Gossip
    Viewing pornography

    In the broadest sense, yes, these sins are part of the inherited part, but these are the things WTS insists we fight against.
    And the best way to fight, they say, is to sell magazines.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    I am not quite sure how Jesus can die for future sins.

    From the standpoint of most current mainstream Christian confessions (cf. your thread title) I see no reason why he could not.

    From the NT perspective, the idea that Jesus dies for our sins (whatever the metaphor used to explain how that is supposed to work -- ransom, sacrifice of atonement, sacrifice of communion etc.) is widespread but not necessarily common to all segments of early Christianity -- for instance, it doesn't seem to play any role in Matthew (in spite of 20:28 which is directly dependent on Mark 10:45, and may well be understood in a different way) or the epistle of James, which suggests that early Jewish Christians circles did not really consider Jesus' death as the cause for forgiveness and salvation from sin and death (cf. also the non-sacrificial version of the Eucharist in the Didachè).

    Where this idea became central it was most often linked to short-term eschatology. Jesus was understood to have appeared at the "end," not at the "middle" of history. But as time went by the perspective changed: every generation of Christians was concerned to have their sins (naturally committed after Jesus' death) forgiven, implying that the sins Jesus had died for were increasingly future sins. One widespread assumption was that baptism, realising the sacramental union with Jesus' death, cancelled previous sins -- but sins committed after baptism remained a big problem, leading to a frequent practice of deathbed baptism (giving little time for further sin) in later centuries. Of course the practice of confession and absolution became increasingly important as a result.

    I think the deepest NT development on the issue is found in Johannism: Jesus takes away the sins of the world, beyond the group of belivers (John 1:29; 1 John 2:2). But people can "remain" and "die" "in their sins" (8:21,24; 9:41; 15:22ff; 16:8ff), or "sin no more" (5:14; cf. 8:11); the believers have the authority to forgive or not to forgive sins (20:23; cf. 1 John 5:14ff). A dualism emerges (not unsimilar to the later Lutheran doctrine of simul peccator et justus): believers are both sinners, continuously forgiven and cleansed (1 John 1:7--2:2,12), and absolutely sinless as God's children (3:4-9; 5:18)

    Does this mean non Adamic sin? If so, does this suggest that in the future a perfect creature can sin and be forgiven of their sin, rather than be instantly destroyed as the Watchtower teaches?

    As far as humans are concerned, I don't see any distinction between "Adamic" and "non-Adamic" sin in the NT. And the "world to come" is hardly described in temporal terms allowing for sin. This will be ruled out in later developments because of the philosophical notion of eternity as timeless rather than endless time, a notion shared by most church Fathers including Augustine who develops the notion of "original sin".

  • heathen
    heathen
    As far as humans are concerned, I don't see any distinction between "Adamic" and "non-Adamic" sin in the NT.

    The adamic sin is what caused the entire human family to fall from grace from God . According to the new testament there is no way to salvation except thru the christian faith . The belief was at the time that by living in accord with the morals that jesus applied that there was a chance you could cheat death should he arrive in kingdom power . With out jesus sacrifice we are viewed as animals and unworthy . The jews were really the only chosen people at one time and they practiced according to the mossaic law but that did not assure that God would not punnish somebody for the sins of their forfathers and such . Under the christian covenant that does not happen , you are accountable for your own sins. Constantine and the catholics didn't get the whole point , original sin is not inherited anymore , jesus cancelled that out so now the entire human race can acheive salvation but only after conversion. There is no ethnic enmity anymore .

  • reneeisorym
    reneeisorym

    What about the scales? Didn't they teach that Jesus died to balance the scales for the perfect human life lost in Adam? It never made sense to me anyway.

    Mainstream Christianity has driven this point home with me.

    They teach that eternal life is a free gift (Romans 6:23) and therefore cant be earned or deserved (Eph 2:8-9) Because we are sinners (Romans 3:23), we cannot save ourselves. So, since God does not leave the guilty unpunished (Exodus 34:7), he had to punish sin somehow. Jesus Christ then died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (Isaiah 53:6). Then all you must do to be saved is put your trust in Jesus (Acts 16:31; John 6:47).

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Thanks, the answers are very enlightening.

    every generation of Christians was concerned to have their sins (naturally committed after Jesus' death) forgiven, implying that the sins Jesus had died for were increasingly future sins.

    Interesting comment Didier, the Ransom doctrine develops out of a need for ensuring my salvation. This seems to bring forth the issue of 'once saved, always saved' and 'faith without works is dead'.

    The "other" sins are the ones we (intentionally) allow upon ourselves

    It does not really make sense to differentiate unintentional sin as Adamic, and intentional sin as non-Adamic and so not covered under the Ransom. Was an act of fornication intentional, or was their an inherited Adamic predisposition to it?

    I had never thought about it with any depth as a JW, but saying we need works for forgiveness dilutes the value of the Ransom. This is another area that Rutherford affected the logic of Watchtower doctrine when introducing narrow salvation. By ensuring the salvation of only practicing JWs it makes the Ransom ineffective for the unbaptised and the sinning baptised.

    After reading Narkissos post, no matter which way it is looked at the Ransom does not make total sense. The only way I can reconcile it is to believe the Ransom covers everyone. At a future time, in perfection and the same relationship with God that Adam had, then mankind will live and be judged. (This is pretty much what Russell taught, with the exception of those the actively fight against God). However, this does not agree with all scripture, or Christian groups that insist belief in Jesus is necessary for salvation.

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