I would say categorically that most JW's still strongly believe all those things, not vaguely.
What are the Elders thinking? What are JW's thinking?
by Fisherman 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Abandoned
Elders and JWs in general don't think; they "believe."
Exactly! All thinking is done by one of the comittees which rotates from one group to another so as not to be too taxing.
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Fisherman
After studying the Proclaimers book years ago, I noticed remarks that some elds made regarding the wts and it made me wonder what were these guys thinking, not the new elders, but old timers that have been around for a while and even btlelds were expressing views that surprised me. I would never have said such things. I was astonished. I do not think that at that time the pubs noticed though and I agree that even now some jws are so loyal that nothing can change their solemn beliefs about the org.
However, back then, after the Proc book and after the generation wt study I observed a change in attitude in the elds and I noticed what they were saying but did not know if other congs were doing the same. Anyway as years went by and after talking with other eld from other cong I noticed a similar attitute and during the litera study, it seemed to me that the material was just being covered in neutral conviction. Of course the friends for the most part dont seem to notice anything. I have recently seen some loyal jws change and I detect a lackness in how they view the wts. I agree that many jws dont think. They loyaly agree with all, but many jws do think and they influence others and what is catching on I think is a lackness in how the wts is viewed. I dont know. I opened this topic to see what more info I can learn from those who may know. I thank everyone for their thoughts!
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BabaYaga
I agree with FullofDoubt... "Think how devastating a blow it would be for those who have spent a lifetime in the org if it was proved beyond doubt that the wts is wrong. They don't want to hear that kind of proof."
How could they deal with such a devastating blow, indeed? I know one who shunned his mother who loved him like the sun, she had been incredibly faithful for years and then was disfellowshipped for a charge that needed help, not shunning. Not surprisingly, she died while disfellowshipped (due largely, I'm sure to the unbearable stress of that alone.) She had no one to talk to in the entire world... she had been a diehard Witness for decades (and she did indeed, die HARD.) Now, how is he supposed to admit that the voice that forced him to do this to his beloved mother was LYING?
Ironically, now his health is not the best. His mother was not supposed to die before the "new order", and certainly not the way she did. And now... he too... is growing old...
Needless to say, he's a pretty damned depressed and grumpy individual.
What they are thinking: "It is the Truth, and that is why I treated my irreplaceable beloved ones like vomit until they died." -
La Capra
When I left, on the dint of my own determination, in 1987, the generation teaching was still going strong, and the fervor was getting stronger-for all the obvious reasons.
I didn't realize the generation teaching changed in the 90s until I started reading H20 in 1999 or 2000. However, my personal opinion is that even though the organiztion doesn't formally teach it, the imminence of the end is still deeply ingrained in the JW culture. Despite what they say at the door (like about denying they believe only JWs would survive armageddon), we know what a JW really knows they should believe. They sincerely believe they are the only ones to be saved, and that armageddon really will arrive soon (a "few" years), and that getting a college education will lock you out of the Kingdom of God.
The cognitive dissonance is raising a ruckus as the rank and file broaden their horizons while being subconsciously pummelled into guilt, anxiety, inadequacy and insecurity. When I was being raised in it, it was simply strict, controlling, manipulative, and sometimes arbitrary and cruel. Now it has become a major mind-f--k for those who sincerely pursue all the activity, study and obedience that the organization requires of them. They know what the literature "officially" teaches, and they know the disparity between that and what they are "supposed to believe."
It is sicker now than it was in the 70s and 80s. A whole different JW culture is emergent...too much to protect, not enough authority to support it.
Shoshana
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pippy
my dad is 84 and been a jw for 30 years,,, i said to him the other day ... as long as he is happy doing what he is doing , then its all good.. and he replied,, im not happy,,do u think i want to run around witnessing all the time,, im tired,,, i would rather not, but its what we must do to live...
poor thing,, he has not 1 other interest in life and is very bored,impatient and naggs alllllllllllll the time,,,
is disapointed in his family who are not jws, and greives all the time about loosing us all.
ripps my heart to pieces..
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Fisherman
What really hurts is having to realize that old age and the grave cannot be cheated. (Even though one keeps hoping to get "the carrot". ) Everything considered,there were good things too about being part of the wts. THe brotherly love thing and friends only applies if one is an active jw it is contingent on active membership one cannot trust friends that are loyal first to an order, so that is a disappointment, to see that one does not have any friends in the org except family and often times not even family in the org.
In all honesty, I think that the wts acts on what they believe the Bible means and how it should be applied. It pains me to say that the problem though I think, is with the BIBLE. There are only a few things that are clearly stated in the Bible, namely, to love your fellow, to be virtuous(kind, compassionate, patient...) and that God is going to redeem mankind. In other words, the broad message is clear. However, THe BIble says one thing and has another meaning. One cannot even know with certainty who is Jesus. THe wts article on Jesus and michael the archangel simply says that they dont know for sure. So much confusion about the trinity and God's identity. Personally, I reject the trinity and I am conviced that Jesus is not Almighty God but that is only my thinking. I see why the confusion though. Why should people be burdened with this uncertainty. Something so crucial. I dont know.
Any verse ans even any word in the Bible is construed to trnsform itself to many meanings. Today does not mean today. see does not mean see. day does not mean day. Jesus comming, his arrival ,Jerusaselm above, heavenly Jerusalem ,when things apply.... THe wts doesnt know, at least that is what I understand when I read the articles cleverly written allowing a retreat and with a light gets brighter license. I get angry when I read verses in the Bible such as "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise." Believe what you like it to mean we dont know! except if God communicates with someone and outight told them . THe wts does not claim that and in fact they teach that God doesnt do that in our time. Also Jesus response "..you will see the son of man comming." How could that person see Jesus if his comming would be thousands of years after his death. Does see mean see? Does comming mean commming? If you dont like the wts meaning you get kicked out for apostasy. How can a person be forced to believe without facts. I think that there is a basis for faith in God and in the Resurrection and in Redemption but as to what the Bible means with certainty, there is lots of room for a wide diversity of thought. "Sun and Moon stand still" doesnt mean that it means something else too.....