How Do You Read The Bible?

by Anitar 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Anitar
    Anitar

    Hi everyone! I wanted to get your opinions on the Bible, particularly the differences between the Old and New Testament. Now, I am not a Biblical scholar, and I don't presume to possess more knowledge than anyone else, I would just like to hear what everyone else believes. So, if you don't mind answering a few questions:

    1) Do you read the bible? Why or why not?

    2) If you do, do you accept everything word for word as the inspired word of God, or use a historical and grammatical interpretation, taking into account the time in which it was written?

    3) Do you believe that parts of the bible have been lost since it was written? I don't mean any bias by the question; I just feel that some parts are incomplete, particularly in the book of Genesis.

    4) Do you believe that all the scriptures are equally important? If not, which ones are more important?

    5) Do you believe that all the scriptures are in total agreement with each other? Why or why not, and which ones?

    6) Any other thoughts?

    Again, I simply wish to know people's personal opinions, and how you apply biblical principles to your everyday life. If you don't read the bible, are an atheist or agnostic, than please give your opinions too, they are equally valuable. I apologize in advance if my questions are somewhat presumptuous. Thank you!

    Anitar

  • Terry
    Terry

    You have asked the most important question that can be asked.

    So many people spin their wheels arguing doctrines when they ignore the basis of doctrine itself.

    Until I took the time and effort to begin reading about the early history of the church, christianity and the bible canon I had no knowledge at all to bring to bear on the question of the Bible itself.

    What I once believed was based on what I'd always heard. And, what I'd heard was strongly biased toward the authenticity of scripture.

    When I first encountered Jehovah's Witnesses (through my best childhood friend), it was his seemingly solid knowledge about what the bible said and how it differed from what mainstream churches taught that most drew me in to the Kingdom Hall.

    Then, my indoctrination began in earnest when I read the JW version of history as regards the twisting of scriptures and how the pagan and babylonian influences have sullied the pure messege of God's word.

    We all know the drill.

    However, I am on the other side of that mountain now.

    I've read extensively. I have tried to balance my readings, too. I read apologists alongside of critics. I read unabashed into the deep well of scholorship and historicity.

    My conclusions are well know here on JWD.

    1.What we buy in the bookstore that is titled THE HOLY BIBLE is a result. It is the result of a process. The process has been ongoing. It is the work of many hands and those hands have a mind behind them. The minds who have put pen to paper or parchment were driven by ideology.

    2.The bible is the state of the art in ideology. It is like the latest copy of a rough draft of a speech. But, the speech has no author! How is that possible? Because there is no FIRST DRAFT!

    3.The oral histories, myths, legends and statecraft of the people who became Jews was never just ONE THING. Each faction within Judaism had their own personal VERSION.

    4. After the return from exile in Babylon it became necessary to bind together a dispersed people by creating a unifying document. The bible (Or OLD TESTAMENT) was the conscious result of tying together differing parts of those versions as best as could be done. Today we'd call this trying to get everybody together on the same page.

    5.As the Jews bumped into stronger, more powerful and advanced civilizations (the Greeks, for example) they adapted the Greek or Babylonian views into their own past histories and dealings with the divine. Improved versions of the retellings constantly eroded and reformed the personal saga of their nationality.

    6.The culmination of the Jewish experience came with the Septuigent, or greek language, version of the Jewish omnibus of their history with their divine overlord. The "modern" Jewish religious man or woman couldn't read Hebrew and relied on a Greek conversational version instead.

    7.Saul of Tarsus, renamed Paul, began circulating his own personal theory of how the Jewish Messiah could have already come as the person of Jesus; even though Jesus had been rejected and put to death. He mixed pagan Platonic thought familiar to Romans with Jewish mysticsm.

    8.The Roman empire found itself ruled by a man from the Sol Invictus cult (worship of the sun god) who was sympathetic to Christianity inasmuch as their grassroots support could solidify his authority.

    9.Constantine sought to end the bickering over doctrinal matters pertaining to christianity by convening a council for that purpose. It was thought that debate could settle the wounds between the natural Judaic christians and the Pauline converts.

    10. A consensus was temporarily declared and those in disagreement were dealt with harshly.

    11.Constantine changed his views several times and the orthodoxy changed with him. People went in and out of favor.

    12.Eventually, the debate finally seemingly ended with an official canon being declared closed.

    After that, the majority of christians were left to sort out their differences the same old way: arguing, debating, fighting, and violence.

    Over the centuries a central clearing house for orthodoxy arose with the political and religious authority to put to death or torture anybody who disagreed with its offical declarations of what God's word said and meant: the Catholic Church.

    Sects, cults, heretics and evangelizers put their respective spin on the written word.

    Philosophers sought to explain the inexplicable in Christian doctrine. (St.Augustine and Thomas Aquinas chiefly).

    The vast majority of Roman citizens were unable to read the bible and the official language of the Church became impenetrable Latin which dealt a double blow to self-discovery of scripture.

    The Catholic Church made up whatever it needed to say to deal with political vicissitudes. What they declared righteous or wicked was accepted as such on authority.

    Along came Martin Luther who decided each christian has the sole authority to interpret scripture without the majesterium of the Pope.

    All translations incorporated whatever views were deemed most persuasive into the text. This meant things were added or subtracted or altered all along the way throughout history.

    At first, translators were tortured and put to death. Later, their work was deemed acceptable and used as source material.

    Today Christianity appears to be just one religion. In reality, it is many factions claiming authority from doctored texts changed according to ancient and political ideologies.

    That is why I always say about the bible: THERE IS NO "THERE" THERE.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    1) Do you read the bible? Not regularly, but I still enjoy re-reading parts of it occasionally as questions and discussions come and go (on JWD for instance). Why or why not? I really like a number of Bible texts, and I find it's a rare and valuable element of continuity along the meanders of life to be able to refer again to a text that you have already read from many different perspectives.

    2) If you do, do you accept everything word for word as the inspired word of God? No. or use a historical and grammatical interpretation, taking into account the time in which it was written? I try so.

    3) Do you believe that parts of the bible have been lost since it was written? No, because whatever you call "the Bible" refers to a particular canon which (of course) coincides with its contents. The Jewish Bible, the Catholic Bible or the Protestant Bible are meant to be what they are, including what they include, excluding what they exclude. Of course most Bible books went through a long process of redaction and edition, including some additions and substractions, and there are a lot of very interesting non-canonical books (by any canon). But I have no interest in arguing for yet another canon (as the idea of "lost parts of the Bible" seems to imply).

    4) Do you believe that all the scriptures are equally important? No, and I think nobody does. Every church and reader has "a canon within the canon," or a "practical canon"; claiming that the genealogies of Chronicles and the Sermon on the Mount are equally important is a joke. If not, which ones are more important? Those I like most, of course... but that makes many of them.

    5) Do you believe that all the scriptures are in total agreement with each other? Definitely not. Why or why not, and which ones? It's plain to see: what we call parallel narratives and are rather alternative and variant narratives (Genesis 1--2:4a vs. Genesis 2:4b--3; Samuel-Kings vs. Chronicles; the Four Gospels); different and sometimes antagonistic theologies (Matthew, Paul or John). etc.

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    1) Do you read the bible? Why or why not?

    Occasionally. I have, of course, read and studied it extensively in the past.

    2) If you do, do you accept everything word for word as the inspired word of God, or use a historical and grammatical interpretation, taking into account the time in which it was written?

    I agree with Terry's assessment of the Bible as a mish mash from all sorts of sources, myth, oral history, written history and re-written history, etc. It is certainly not inspired in any way.

    3) Do you believe that parts of the bible have been lost since it was written? I don't mean any bias by the question; I just feel that some parts are incomplete, particularly in the book of Genesis.

    The Bible is a bunch of various writings pulled together over thousands of years for a variety of reasons - and I'm certain that there are numerous versions of it over time.

    4) Do you believe that all the scriptures are equally important? If not, which ones are more important?

    No. Most scripture is of very little importance, except for how so many people take it seriously. A lot of people put a huge amount of importance on the writings of a group of ancient bedouins - even being willing to kill because of it.

    5) Do you believe that all the scriptures are in total agreement with each other? Why or why not, and which ones?

    Certainly not. The Bible is a mish mash which takes a huge amoung of mental manipulation to get it to make any sense at all. Just take a look at Jehovah's Witnesses!

    6) Any other thoughts?

    As with Terry, it was when I really looked at the Bible without the JW blinders on that I realized this was certainly not an inspired book, but was a lot of mythology and definitely not the word of god. It was reading the Bible that led me to reject it, along with Christianity and belief in any god.

    S4

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    1) Do you read the bible? Why or why not?

    Not really. I am much more likely to read anything from the Gnostic Gospels or Lost Scrolls, etc. now. I am, however, VERY interested in books on the HISTORY of the Bible itself right now.

    2) If you do, do you accept everything word for word as the inspired word of God, or use a historical and grammatical interpretation, taking into account the time in which it was written?

    I absolutely do not believe the bible is the verbatim word of the Creator. I will quote a dear friend of mine (who is a Gnostic Bishop) dear Rosamonde Miller, who says,

    "The Hebrew Bible, the Gnostic Gospels, the Christian and Apocryphal Gospels, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita—we use them and others from more recent sources. We never take them literally. We do not consider any of them to be "the word of God" or a final authority. We do not see them as "God's laws," but as men's laws. They are many voices with varying degrees of consciousness expressing, with whatever they could, their vision of the universe and its source. Each the voice of its culture and times. Each colored by its political and social condition—often tainted with fear and the effort to demonize enemies or to justify actions and the establishment of new beliefs. Each a cry for hope. All longing for God. Much in them is of great beauty and wisdom. We recognize and acknowledge the value of these ancient mythologies. By mythology, we mean something that while not necessarily factual, is nevertheless true. They point not to one time and event in history but to the ever-recurrent realities of the soul. As we discover more about evolution and the universe, new meanings arise. The old mysteries, as they unravel, eternally disclose new ones to be unveiled. Therefore we can hold no beliefs—only hypotheses; open to be discarded or changed at all times."

    her site is here: http://www.gnosticsanctuary.org/who_are_we.html

    3) Do you believe that parts of the bible have been lost since it was written? I don't mean any bias by the question; I just feel that some parts are incomplete, particularly in the book of Genesis.

    There is no doubt that incredible amounts of the "bible" was lost. The Catholic church is the one who decided what scrolls would go into the quote unquote "Bible", and even then kept debating about it and putting in and taking out for years. The Bible books were not written at the time these things were happening, (aka during the life of Christ) nor, for the most part, were they written by the apostles... reading the history of the Bible does much to give one incredible perspective.

    Incidently, once the Church leaders decided which scrolls were valid and holy as opposed to the others (just as valid, which all of a sudden became the work of the Devil) they then proceeded to exterminate entire populations who still believed the works to be holy. Look up info on the Cathars, who were executed by the Early Church... men, women, and children, all... for believing in bible scrolls. This is why scrolls were hidden, and why we are still finding some today (i.e. The Gospel of Judas.)

    4) Do you believe that all the scriptures are equally important? If not, which ones are more important?

    Interesting question, I'm not sure. I think the biographies of Jesus are the most important (even from the lost scrolls) as he was an incredible teacher. I'm not convinced he was more than that, but I do believe he was worth imitating for the greater good.

    5) Do you believe that all the scriptures are in total agreement with each other? Why or why not, and which ones?

    Absolutely not. They even contradict on small details, which is understandable, as they are from different perspectives (obviously not from one Omnipotent Eye) and again, not written when these things were taking place.

    6) Any other thoughts?

    I think the Old Testament (G)od was a schizophrenic, jealous, bloodthirsty horror. That personification is no god of mine.

    I apologize in advance if my questions are somewhat presumptuous.

    Not presumptuous at all! A great topic with great questions, thank you!

    Truly,
    Baba.

  • lawrence
    lawrence

    With the eyes of my heart.

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Touche', Lawrence!

    Hugs
    Baba.

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow

    I don't read the bible now, apart from looking at an odd scripture on the internet, as I no longer possess a copy of the bible. I don't believe the bible was inspired by anyone, though I'm inclined to think that the writer of Revelation was influenced by something, and whilst I would agree that some of the principles in the scriptures are worth following, I don't accept the bible itself as being truth.

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    1) Do you read the bible? Why or why not?

    Occasionally look up a scripture to check on something a poster has said.

    2) If you do, do you accept everything word for word as the inspired word of God, or use a historical and grammatical interpretation, taking into account the time in which it was written?

    I consider the Bible a rough composite of myth, religious laws, and biased history.

    3) Do you believe that parts of the bible have been lost since it was written? I don't mean any bias by the question; I just feel that some parts are incomplete, particularly in the book of Genesis.

    Yes.

    4) Do you believe that all the scriptures are equally important? If not, which ones are more important?

    No. "Do unto others..." carries far more weight than "so-and-so begat so-and-so."

    5) Do you believe that all the scriptures are in total agreement with each other? Why or why not, and which ones?

    No, because different people wrote them with different motives at different times in history.

    6) Any other thoughts?

    No.

  • Anitar
    Anitar

    I am quite surprised at the number of responses I received. Please by all means, keep them coming!

    Terry: Very, very good comments. I am astonished at the insight and research you have done. I shall strive to live up to the example you set. It seems to me that the God of the Old Testament is one of great contradictions. Cain, who murdered his brother in cold blood, was banished into the wildnerness, where a wife magically appeared, they started their own tribe, and they lived happily ever after. This indicates that the authors were male, who probably assumed that the reader cared not about the origin of Cain's wife, and seemed to have the ability to conjure women out of nowhere. And then there's the punishment itself. It seems oddly unfair considering what happened to Abel, who was a faithful believer.

    Next there was Noah. If we are to believe it exactly as it says, and as the watchtower teaches, then we are to beleive that Noah and his family are pure and faithful, and everyone else on the planet is corrupt and evil? Is that possible knowing what we know about human nature? And logically, if everyone was that evil, would they not have stoned Noah and his family long before he made an ark? And if Noah was so pure and righteous, what was he doing in the midle of all this? How did his children get married if the only people to chose from would kill their mother for a sack of gold?

    Take a look, if you will, at Judges chapter seven. It describes a timid young soldier who must see for himself what God is telling him, because God doesn't want blind obedience. That hardly seems like the God who would commit the previous acts, nor the one who would one day proclaim to love one another as he loves us. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

    I think I see a similar point from Narkissos, Seeker4, and Parakeet. If I understand you correctly, I think we are in agreement. I have a working theory that I have come to adopt over the years. God knew that his word would fade and people would eventually twist his message beyond recgonition. He knew everything would happen that Terry explained (again, wonderful job!) He therefore humbled himself and became a human being for the benefit of all mankind. I believe this not because someone else tells me to, but rather from my own findings.

    It makes sense to me that Jesus was not a "perfect man" or an angel, or whatever is the flavor of the month in watchtower land. He was God in human form, because a man can be destroyed, and so can an angel, but God can never be destroyed. He does not make "choices" as we know it, and he does not see mortality and immortality as we see it. And in their coming together, the divine and the human are intermingled, and we have a much more complete humanity through that.

    That's how Jesus has remained consistant through the centuries. He manages to cut through all the other confusion and mistranslations to reach the reader on a spiritual level. If we follow his two most important commandments, worship one God and love one another as he loved us, than all else is secondary.

    BabaYaga: It's funny you mentioned the Catholics omitting certain scriptures. Just last week we were discussing that very topic in Sunday School. It occured to me that while this religion may not have all the answers, at least they don't try to hide their past, which shows me they are on their way to a bright future. Thank you for your comments and your kind words of encouragement. It's good to see you again!

    Thank you everyone for your responses, whether bible readers or not, I find them all very insightful and have already learned alot.

    All the best,
    Anitar

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit