A Dummies Discussion on God, the Universe and Everything.

by nicolaou 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • moshe
    moshe

    about God: The Intelligent design bunch who can never have enough scientific facts about evolution to prove it to them, well, they rely on supernaturalism to prove the existence of God to themselves.

    The Bible: God kicks Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden for sin and then over a thousand years later destroys all but 8 for wickedness. Then after the flood, God gives Noah the laws against murder, adultery,etc. That means for over 1000 years man had no explicit laws against those sins and God destroyed mankind for violating these unwritten laws. This doesn't seem very fair to me. Also, I have been to a lot of zoos and they don't have near the animals that Noah's ark contained and yet it takes more than 8 people to run a zoo-it's like 100's of people.

    under everything: If the minimum wage in the USA, now at $5.15/hr, had been indexed to Congressional salary raises, I am sure that the minimum wage would be at least $15/hr.

  • Cellist
    Cellist

    PrimateDave, I love your answer. That is exactly what I meant when I said, "Your guess is as good as mine." I wish I was more eloquent with words.

    Moshe, I agree completely with your comments, but I can't quite fit in the last point with the discussion here. LOL

    Cellist

  • PrimateDave
    PrimateDave

    Why, thank you, Cellist! :) I don't get on the 'net every day, so I just now had a chance to read your comment. You know, sometimes the words flow, and sometimes they don't! I guess we all have our moments. LOL!

    Dave

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    Ok Nic,
    How do evolutionist support walking upright?

    If mankind is the highest evolved species (mentally), what are the proposed benefits of bipedal movement? Other quadripod/bipods can still reach higher vegetation----bears, apes, dogs, etc... yet all other species (with the exception of a few reptiles) can run faster on all fours. What would be the evolutionary "advantage" for walking upright?

    If standing erect requires much more balance than being on all fours... why are humans the only species without a tail?

    Since 50% of each day is in darkness and since humans have very little physiological defenses against predators, why is their night vision one of the worst in the entire animal kingdom?

    What would be the evolutionary benefit of not being reproductive or approaching physical maturity until approx. 12 years of life (roughly 30% into the life span of ancient man)... compare this with the life cycle of any other mammal. What other animal is not "full grown" so late in life... why?

    What is the evolutionary advantage of exploiting available resource for humans having such a "delicate" digestive system? Other animals within the same food chain can eat things that would make a human sick or die.

    What is the advantage of being practically hairless?

    What is the advantage of male facial hair?

    What is the advantage of emotions like sadness, jealosy, or remorse?

    I will now attempt to answer as many of these as I can under 300 words. (Therefore I'll chose the ones I like best.)


    Walking upright does impede movement, however it has many benifits: Climbing, it allows us to use two hands for tools or weapons without making us immobile, etc. But if, as you say, it would be better to walk on all fours, then that just hints at a really stupid god. (50 Words)

    Night vision: True humans can't see well in the dark, but that helps to PROVE evolution, not disprove it. If a designer invented the perfect eyeball, he would use it in all his creations. The variety of optical recievers in the animal kingdom supports evolution. (45 words)

    Hair and lack thereof: Not all things have to be benifitial for survival, part of natural selection is the ability to reproduce. So if most early humans like mates with less hair, then humans with less hair would have more kids, and produce more kids with less hair. Same thing but reversed for facial hair. Some girls like it I guess. (57 words)

    Emotions: Not all improvements have to be just for that single organism, the species should improve as a whole. Remorse prevents murders, thus helping the spieces survive. Anger and fear makes a threatened organism retaliate, helping survival. Sadness makes people more considerate of their own spieces. Jealosy is a more single organism benifit, it benifits that one organism, thus assisting in its survival. (62 words)

    Just because something, like an eye, or ear, or digestive system could theoretically have evolved in a better way, doesn't meen that it must have by now. Evolution basically means that animals can branch off and change, if the change is helpfull to the species as a whole it probably will live. HOWEVER, these variations in design make the idea of a designer look pretty unlikely. When people invent a better lens they generally use that in all their products, same with a better microchip. But when god invents a better eyeball, why doesn't he use it in all his creations? Especially considering that an all powerfull god would not have limited resources. (113 words)

    Sorry that's a total of 327 words. Please forgive me.

    LtCmd.Lore

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    The finite being cannot comprehend the infinite, nor can we can we objectively demonstrate to other beings of similar nature that the infinite does or does not exist.

    Flatworld

  • AllAlongTheWatchtower
    AllAlongTheWatchtower

    I sat here for a moment actually trying to think about what has always existed...though philosophers may quibble, saying that time doesn't exist if it can't be measured (ie, if no planets revolve, no pulsars pulse, as in the riddle if a tree falls in a forest and nobody hears, does it make a sound?), to me, time is the only thing that always has existed, and always will. Therefore if god is eternal, god = time.

    Let's test that theory: Change "God" to "Time" as in the following (mis)quotes:

    TIME will destroy the world at Armageddon. (Eventually the earth's orbit may decay, the sun burn out, etc)

    TIME created the heavens and the earth, and all the creatures in it. ("Big Bang", evolution.)

    TIME is eternal, with no beginning and no end. It always has been and always will be.

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Time is a figment of our imagination.

    Einstein

    edit to add: This and my last post are concepts I've gathered from others (don't we all?!), but I have embraced them as my own, and can fully elucidate them...therefore, within the "rules" of this thread.

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    The orignial question from Nic. was"

    Was original life the simplest, humblest, single celled microbe or was it the grandest, most complex, all powerful intelligence that has ever existed? Does life become more complex over billions of years in the manner of a small seed maturing into a wonderful sequoia or did life start at it's peak and only ever produce inferior varieties thereafter?

    I am going to answer in a simplistic way....based on plants.

    I raise orchids and various exotic plants. IMHO, the beauty of these flowers and the "design"..was no accident or mutation.....

    Do I believe in a Creator, yes. Our entire Universe is based on organized design in one form or another. I know many will not agree and thats your right, but I am a firm believer that everything is designed......not just a freak reaction of random atoms to......(you name it)

    r.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    LOL nic!! "God - Either He exists, or He doesn't." - ?

    come on. why presume that everyone thinks God is He, and that He is an Objective entity that exists somewhere out there?

    Jehovah? of course he doesn't exist! it's a stretch of the imagination to compare jehovah to what we have come to know of this universe. fine. but what about God as the metaphor? what does it point to? does it not point to us? and if so, do we not learn something of psychological value to ourselves? is God not the great archetype? the great myth? the one that woke us up when we stopped taking it literally?

    and for the creation/evolution ilk, what about creation as the metaphor?

    why does it always have to be about the literal? do we have nothing of psychological depth to learn from the myths of past? do they not illuminate where we come from? are they not almost like snapshots of our psyches as they split from unity with nature to alienation from nature, among other events?

    God: if God = Nature, and Nature = God, then i say that God does exist. as sure as you and i exist. we are part of it, and it part of us. this does not make me a theist. it makes me a pantheist, and yet you will note, still an atheist. and why? all because i was forced to use the label "God". i mean, i prefer "god', but if we are capitalising "Universe" and "Everything", then "God" might as well be capatalised too, no?

    Universe: ...it's one big computer program. input/output ... even black holes.

    Everything: Fractals. Clouds, mountains, trees, humans. Fractals.

    God is the Universe, the Universe is Everything, Everything is God, God is... ... ...a word! HA!

    primate dave:

    tetra

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