An Apology from Dave Wiltshire to You Know!

D wiltshire

After looking at Jude 8,9 I feel I owe You Know an apology.

Look what it says:
” in like manner not withstanding, these men, too, indulging in dreams, are defiling the flesh and disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones. But when Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said, “ May the LORD rebuke you.

From these verses I think this:
1) That when Jude says glorious ones who where being spoken against, that these could even include Satan the Devil.
2) Even Michael wouldn’t call down evil or speak abusively of the Devil, he didn’t even dare the account says.

So if that is the case then I have to say:
“ You Know I’m sorry when in your thread a couple of days ago I said,” You heartless B-------.” “I see now that if Michael could not speak abusively of the Devil than I can not speak abusively of You”.

I’m not asking for forgiveness or anything, I’m just trying to right a wrong.
Forgiveness that I need comes from God.
Just righting a wrong.

Oh by the way if anybody feels that I have the wrong understanding of Jude 8,9,10, please tell me, maybe I got it all wrong, so would value anyones outlook, just keep it breif and in your own words.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

siegswife

(((From these verses I think this:
1) That when Jude says glorious ones who where being spoken against, that these could even include Satan the Devil.
2) Even Michael wouldn’t call down evil or speak abusively of the Devil, he didn’t even dare the account says)))

I think you're right on about this. I think you are right about apologizing for what you said too. None of us has the right to abuse or judge anything or anyone that God has created. Don't we all serve a purpose? What we prove to be in the end is only according to God's understanding of what we've done and why we did it.

D wiltshire

sw,

Thanks for the Input, and in the future please feel free to give me your thoughts even if we disagree on some little thing, no biggy, as long as we all keep learn about life.

Dave

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Farkel

: Don't we all serve a purpose?

How about virus'? Their sole purpose is to destroy their host and then move on to destroy another host that feeds them. Sort of like the WTS, come to thing about it.

Farkel
Musing About Class

"When in doubt, duck!"

D wiltshire

You Know did you read my apology?

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Winston

Farkel,

I see you really like that Virus illustration.

Vienna

Interesting point: If Jesus is Michael the Archangel (Jesus Christ is more than some mere angel as the JWs would have JWs believe), then he would be able to judge Satan in this scripture in Jude. How so?

John 5:22 "The Father doesn't judge anyone. He has entrusted judgment ENTIRELY to the Son."
John 5:27 "He has also gave the Son AUTHORITY to pass judgment because he is the Son of Man."

Makes you wonder who Michael the Archangel really is...why doesn't he have the power of judging? Because Michael is not Jesus Christ, as the bible clearly shows.

Who is Jesus? Rev. 1:8 says "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God (notice it says Lord God) who is to come, the Almighty." Keep reading chapter 1, because John in verse 12 turns to see the voice that is speaking to him, and verse 13 says "I saw one the son of man clothed in a robe reaching to the feet." Jesus was speaking to John, calling himself "the Alpha and the Omega." The Lord God. Then read in verse 17 Jesus calls himself "the first and the last". Interesting. Jesus is God, but NOT like the JWs would have you believe that we Christains believe He is.

I like to use an orange illustration: you have the pulp, the seeds and the skin. The pulp (holy spirit), seeds (Jesus) and skin (the Father) are all TOTALLY differant in purpose and function, but they all make up ONE orange. There are many, many other scriptures that help you understand the relationship. The bible is a wonderful teaching tool, and guess what? It existed long before 'The Watchtower' and 'Awake', and as 2 Tim. 3:15 says that the bible is 'able to give you the wisdom that LEADS TO SALVATION through faith which is in Christ Jesus.' Not the WT.

I encourage all JWs to please do some research on who really is Micheal the Archangel and who Jesus is. Cross reference scriptures (use other versions in addition to the NWT) The bible is full of explainations, and please e-mail me if you don't mind.

(edited for typo)

D wiltshire

Vienna,

I asked for imput on these scriptures not to prove whether or Jesus iis God.
I asked for imput on if what I did was morally right according to Jude 8,9.
I'm asking is my understanding right?

Farkal,

I'm thinking of your question:

How about virus'? Their sole purpose is to destroy their host and then move on to destroy another host that feeds them. Sort of like the WTS, come to thing about it.
Farkel
Musing About Class

I didn't know that a virus' sole purpose is to destroy.

Where did you do your research to know for sure that a virus' sole purpose is such?

I guess before answering that question we need to make sure that a virus' sole purpose is to destroy.

Once we know for sure that a virus' sole purpose is to destroy we can answer your question.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

You Know

Interesting point: If Jesus is Michael the Archangel (Jesus Christ is more than some mere angel as the JWs would have JWs believe), then he would be able to judge Satan in this scripture in Jude. How so?

At the time Michael was disputing with the Devil it was in the time of Moses. That was BEFORE Michael came to earth as Jesus and it was BEFORE Jesus was exalted to become the king of God's kingdom and BEFORE Jehovah conferred upon him all authority in heaven and on earth. So Michael showed respect for Jehovah's position by saying: "May Jehovah rebuke you." Since that time Michael has been given authority over Satan to not only oust him from heaven but to bind him in chains. That's why we read at Revelation the 12th chapter that Michael and his angels kick Satan and the demons out of heaven and Revelation the 20th chapter reveals that an angels tosses him into an abyss. The ultimate defeat of the Devil is something reserved exclusively for Jesus Christ because Satan had Jesus murdered. As the ultimate act of vengeance and justice Jehovah has empowered Jesus to crush the Devil. That's what Genesis foretold that the seed of the woman would do. The fact that Michael is shown in Scripture taking direct action against the Devil, something reserved for Christ to do, proves that Jesus and Michael are one and the same. / You Know

D wiltshire

I think we started a heated debate!

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

An Apology from Dave Wiltshire to You Know!

Share this