just another religion

by teejay 42 Replies latest jw friends

  • teejay
    teejay

    Patriotism is a religion just like every other religion. Either you believie it and live it or you don't.

    I see people waving the flag at sporting events, hear them mouthing the words, "We're all one nation, blah, blah, blah" but then they go out and flip one another off in the parking lot. Just like people at the Kingdom Hall who supposedly love Jehovah (or Jesus or Allah) and after the meeting is over, they go right back to the way they were.

    Love of country is no more influential than love of God.

  • TR
    TR

    TJ

    Love of country is no more influential than love of God.

    Why should it be? The U.S. is a nation of 280 million people, you doink. We all come from different backgrounds and beliefs. But we do have in common the country we live in. If we want to remain srong and free, we need to show support. If you really live in Jamaica, what the hell are you worried about anyway? Just roll another doob, pour another shot of Appleton's, and chill.

    TR

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    —Edmund Burke

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    The first post in this thread is untrue, by definition.

    A patriot is defined as "one who loves his country and supports its authority and interests". Nothing religious mentioned in that dictionary's definition.

    To suggest it is a religion would mean a person would have TWO religions at once, if for example one were a patriot and a Presbyterian, or a patriot and a Baptist.

    In what churches do these patriot/religionists assemble? Where is their holy book?

    And your flippant comment about there being more flag-waving and yet people treat each other the same bad way outside the arena or event, is a gross and untrue generalization. People of all stripes have truly come together in this time of need here in America. I have been listening to call-in radio shows to sense what is the pulse out there, and it is: WE NEED EACH OTHER MORE THAN EVER!

    Yes, there may be some "false" patriotism followed by people being jerks, but that is part of the human condition right now. Some people will be immature and behave like jerks.

    Or is immaturity a "behavior" or attitude that you would classify as a sub-religion?

    Let's not get our terms and definitions confused here.

    (Trying to clear up the muddy water)

    GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
    Mark Twain (1835-1910)

  • Julie
    Julie

    Greetings to all--

    Gopher, you said:

    :In what churches do these patriot/religionists assemble? Where is their holy book?

    For Americans of course our most sacred document is the Constitution. That's fine by me as it is more enlightened than any "holy book" I've ever read.

    I'll take America and her great freedoms any day. Liberty, that word/concept is so hated by many (like religious zealots) but revered by even more. I am one of the "even more".

    Julie

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    Have you ever seen brothers and sisters within a family who fight like cats and dogs when they're alone, but when in public will stand together against any outside provocation? That's what patriotic people are like. Sure, we piss and moan, flip each other off, fight about politics, compete in business - but that's all within our national "family". When threatened from without, we stand together as Americans and put all the other crap aside. The only real disappointment is that there are actually some people too self-absorbed to understand how that works!

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    I hate to admit it, and this will probably start a nuclear flaming frenzy in this thread, but, I am already VERY tired of the flags and songs.

    I am still reeling from the shock of the videos from the attacks. I drive into downtown Boston every day, and as I glance at the Hancock and Prudential buildings, I can't help but imagine that at any second a jet will crash into either one of them. I am speechless about the suffering, death and losses.

    But, IMO the flag waving, the patriotic music are turning into codependent coping mechanisms. I see neighbors of mine who regularly cheat on their taxes, drive the highways drunk, smoke dope on summer weekends in their backyard barbeques, who also never served a day in their lives, and now all of a sudden are "patriotic".

    So anyone and everyone is "cool" and "american" right now, as long as you wave a flag. I see foreign nationals, (students / immigrants ) who are flying flags, probably out of fear of personal safety, more than anything else, it is a drug.

    Patriotism is a convenient drug that the government and the media sell as "idealism" and the "american way" and "freedom". You don't agree?

    Listen to what US Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler, who was TWICE awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor had to say:
    ______________________________________________________________________

    Major General Smedley Butler, USMC

    The following is an excerpt from a 1933 speech by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC. General Butler was TWICE awarded the Medal of Honor (1914, 1917).

    "War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people.

    Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

    I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

    I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

    There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its 'finger men' to point out enemies, its 'muscle men' to destroy enemies, its 'brain men' to plan war preparations and a 'Big Boss' Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

    It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

    I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

    I helped make Honduras "right" for American fruit companies in 1903. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

    During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
    ______________________________________________________________________

    Just my thoughts about "rah-rah" nationalism.

  • bboyneko
    bboyneko

    Patriotism is indeed a religion. Want proof? Try burning an american flag anywhere near a police officer. Whoops! off to jail you go. Now, in a country of 'free speech' and 'freedom' why is it illegal to burn a flag? Could it be because it is....sacred?

    Sacred? Patriotism is just a word to define the unity of a countries people right? Nope. In God we trust indeed.

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Good point Danny Boy!

  • bboyneko
    bboyneko

    one more point, maybe anyone in the marines can verify this..when evacuating or retreating, it is VERY important, maybe even just as important and bringing wounded buddie with you, to take down the american flag from whicever building you evacuate, especially an embassy, and take it with you.

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    That is correct. The MARINES in general had many specific rules about the handling and displaying of the national colors.

    Every evening at 8PM, it would be the Corporal of the Guard's responsibility to march up to the pole, and at precisely 8PM, blow the whistle 3 times and shout "Colors", then at that precise moment, every Marine standing, walking, or training outside, had to immediately come to attention and face the direction of the flag pole, and if in uniform, render a salute.

    Once, when I was on guard duty, I accidentally lost control of the flag line (rope) and it came down faster than I could recover, so the flag touched the ground, even though it was just for a second. I did more pushups than you can imagine. Let's just say I got real strong in the Marines.

    On the battlefield, same reverance.

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