Need help (I know, we've seen this a million time)

by Tras 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Tras

  I know that this already exists in past threads, but I'd like an answer that fits my situation. Today I had an older witness preach to me and quoting every verse about a new earth and heaven, and meek shall inherit the eart, and the "Do you have loved ones that died and you'd like to see again?"

  Anyway, he said he's coming back with a gift yada yada.

  He's really nice and I don't want to offend him, cause he's an old man. I need material that will stump him, without coming off as rude or attacking. He has the usual Jehovah verses memorized and talks a million and fifty-two words a minute. I've got the usual false prophecy and UN and whatever else info, but he doesn't want to hear that, I didn't even try, you all know. I need bible verses that he cannot answer. If possible, I'd like to jump verse to verse like he did to make my point.

  Thank you very much.
• 

  Honesty

  Begin by asking him to read Revelation 1:8.

  “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “Who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

  After reading this verse together, ask him the following question, “Who is the Alpha and the Omega?” He will respond by saying something like, “Well, it says right there, the Alpha and the Omega is the Lord God (or Jehovah God in their translation).”

  Next, ask him if he will read another passage of scripture with you, and ask him to read Revelation 22:13.

  “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End”

  After reading this verse with them, ask him, “Now, who exactly is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last?”

  He will probably respond by saying something like, “We just saw who the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last is, he is the Lord God (or Jehovah God in their translation).

  Lastly, ask him if he’ll look at one more passage with you, and read Revelation 1:17-18.

  When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last (stop here and ask again, ‘who is the First and the Last?’). I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!”

  After reading this last passage of Scripture, ask him, “So, when exactly did the Lord God (or Jehovah God in their translation) die?”

  Most Jehovah’s Witnesses will just look at that passage in bewilderment, for you have just shown them conclusively, even from their own translation, that Jesus is the Lord God (or Jehovah God). If you want to demonstrate this reality even further, read with him Revelation 22:13 & 16, where the Alpha and the Omega says, “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches.”
• 

  jgnat

  How about, "You know, I'm used to studying the bible differently than you. Usually I start with a single chapter and reason through the verses in context to get the full meaning. Could we do that? How about John or Hebrews?"

  If he tries to say a promise is only for the Anointed, ask him to prove it in context.
• 

  Pahpa

  You may find all of this an excercise in futility. Generally, it is a waste of time to argue with JWs. Subjects like the "first and last" or the "alpha and omega" all have counter arguments that scholars have been discussing for years. Just compare the literature of the trinitarians with that of the unitarians. There is no point of agreement on the interpretation of these verses. Both present logical arguments. But both can not be correct. In the final analysis, each person has to decide which one thinks has the more scriptural basis.

  Wouldn't it be better to thank the man for calling. Politely tell him that you appreciate his effort but that you believe differently than Jehovah's Witnesses and that you don't want to waste his valuable time.
• 

  Alwayshere

  Tras, you might say "I know JWs believe king Nebuchadnezzar's first year to rule was 624 and they believe Jerusalem was laid desolated in 607 but notice what it says here at 2kings:25 verse 8-9." It plainly says "in the 19th year of King Neb. was when Jerusalem was desolated so how do you get 607 when you minus 18 from 624 it is 606." Of course we know from the Bible and History King Neb. first year to rule was 605 and when you minus 18 from 605 =587.
• 

  SPAZnik

  I can only speak from my own experiences.
  
  When I was a sincere door-knocking JW,
  the comments that "stumped" me
  (and even made me actually think)
  weren't lengthy diatribes
  or doctrinal "proofs"
  from hypocrites
  telling me not to shove my beliefs down their throat,
  but then turning around and shoving theirs down mine.
  
  Instead,
  the comments that got to me
  were brief, honest, kind and true.
  
  One person said, "I think you guys are very militant."
  (How could I argue with that? "We" were. I thought about that comment and what it said about JWs who are supposed to be "known for their love".)
  
  Another said,(kindly & with respect) "I've looked into it. It's not for me."
  I asked where he'd looked. "A few websites online."
  I don't recall discussing it further with him, though I may have given the standard JW "go to the horse's mouth line" or asked him if it was the "official" JW site, but his steadfast demeanor made me ask myself "I wonder what he saw online." When I was ready, I looked.
  Of my own volition, in my own time (both of which are big with me).
  
  I wish I could always practise the kind of strength, love, and respect for my fellow earthlings that those two individuals gave, cuz for me, the first comment and the way it was delivered made a dent and the second was positively life altering.
  
  What can I say, I'm werkin' on it. :)
  
  SPAZ
• 

  lisavegas420

  He's really nice and I don't want to offend him, cause he's an old man. I need material that will stump him, without coming off as rude or attacking.

  Ohh..ohh...that might be my dad.

  Just to be on the save side..would you mind mentioning that he can now take 'blood fractions', just incase he missed that magazine. Thanks.

  lisa
• 

  Perry

  Ask him why he thinks 1914 is significant and why he thinks Christ returned then. After the invisible speil and when he eventually gets to the standard line about how WWI broke out then as proof, ask him to read:

  Mt 24:6 - Show Context And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. Mr 13:7 - Show Context When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed; this must take place, but the end is still to come. Lu 21:9 - Show Context "When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end will not follow immediately." Ask him, "why would you want to put forth evidence that Jesus specifically commands us not to consider"? Read to him the following from the Living bible: The New Living Translation Luke 17 Read This Chapter 17:24 For when the Son of Man returns, you will know it beyond all doubt. It will be as evident as the lightning that flashes across the sky. Ask him if he can understand your reluctance to accept his views in light of these scriptures. Then ask him to read this scripture: Matthew 24 Read This Chapter 24:26 "So if someone tells you, 'Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,' don't bother to go and look. Or, 'Look, he is hiding here,' don't believe it! Now this is important, use these exact words: According to this warning from Jesus, what is the appropriate response for Christians when confronted with a claim that Jesus has already come but you can't see him? Thank him for his time and assure him that you will pray for God's mercy upon him. End the conversation.
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  acadian

  Welcome to the board Tras, If you don't want to debate them then politly tell them that because they are an apostate religion that denigns christ, you have to shun them. Then put up a "No Tresspassing" sign, most will not visit a house with this sign, and if they do you can call the police if you wanted to, just mention that fact to them and they wont be back as long as the sign is up. Acadian
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  Pahpa

  It has been my experience that when you challege a JWs, he doesn't really listen to your argument. He's only thinking of how he can overcome the point being made with the Watchtower's indoctrination. Unlike Christians who are willing to discuss subjects with a "give and take" attitude, JWs become very defensive. It's not like the Biblical counsel: "Come, let us reason together."