Need help (I know, we've seen this a million time)

by Tras 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Wasanelder Once

  I like to ask this question. Have him read this verse: (Proverbs 21:18) 18 The wicked is a ransom for the righteous one; and the one dealing treacherously takes the place of the upright ones.

  Then ask him if Jesus was our ransomer and how can that be when he was not wicked? The bible says that the "wicked" is a ransom for the righteous one.

  It actually means that the wicked must pay the price of thier death in order to ransom the righteous one from their evil influence. He probably wont know that. Might though. If he gives you that answer, then ask him. Does that mean that all the wicked will have to die for us to have a paradise earth? (He will be excited that you got the point, yuck.) He will have to say yes. Ask who constitute wicked people. When he says those not doing God's will, say... "like me and my family?" He will hedge and hem and haw. Then you can add, that means that nearly 6 billion people will have to die for you to have peace? That means my neighbors and your neighbors? All these people will be killed by God?

  He'll give you the whole preach before the end crap. Just say that the latest tract will only reach 350 million of these people. How is that a good enough warning for 6 billion people? The end must be far off it the good news is to be "preached to all the nations and then the end will come." If he says that not everyone has to hear it because God judges hearts, you can say, well that means they don't have to be Jehovah's witnesses to be saved after all. Isn't that what all the churches teach too, that God is the judge and it doesn't matter if you go to church so long as God views you as acceptable?

  Let the sparks fly!!!

  Have fun.

  W.Once
• 

  reneeisorym

  Since you've already talked about the new earth:

  Where does it say that the great crowd is going to be on earth?

  It says they are in heaven @ Rev 19:1.

  Then we have the "in the temple" at Rev 7:15 (naos or the "devine dwelling" according to the Insight book)

  And then there's the "before the throne" Rev 7:9 (the 144,00 is also before the throne Rev 14:3 and also the angels Rev 7:11)

  But never does it say they are on the earth.
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  jwfacts

  There is no point trying to fight a doctrinal battle. There is no point reading a single scripture. Hassan in Releasing the Bonds says that cults strongly push doctrine, but fighting doctrine will not get a person anywhere, because the underlying believe is not in the doctrine, but in the authority of the cult.

  As you already said, he knows lots of scriptures and won't let you speak. He could not care what you think. If you want to speak to him raise the false predictions. But you know he already knows about these, and the WTS has told him they do not matter because they were just enthusiastic. and he accepted that because the WTS said it. You could raise the UN, but the WTS will tell him it is ok because it was just a library card, so he will accept that. Unless he is at a point in his life that he wants to leave you will get nowhere.
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  parakeet

  "He's really nice and I don't want to offend him, cause he's an old man."
  
  
  If you don't want to offend him, it would probably be best to simply cancel the study. "Stumping" an old man will almost certainly do nothing to alter his beliefs. And if he's nice, you won't want to confuse him just for the sake of seeing a JW get confused and upset.
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  Woodsman

  Ask him if armageddon is so close is it safe to say his message is that the "due time has approached"? When he says yes ask himto read Luke 21:8.