Shaolu - You have a PM.
Jeff
Judicial Committee Audio Recording
by Shaolu 113 Replies latest jw experiences
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Finally-Free
I have to address Wasanelder Once's comment about people being aware of what they're getting into when they get baptized
Yes, I have to address it too. I was baptized when I was going on 26, and I was not aware of the rules in the elders manual, which is something I never saw or heard of until after I left the cult. No where in the pre-baptism 120 questions or study material did it indicate that I would not be allowed a recording device or observer or defense counsel to be present should I ever be summoned to a JC. No where in their study material does it indicate that "Satans system" has a much more fair judicial process than "God's organization".
Anyone who is or was an elder knows this to be true. Anyone who is or was an elder and maintains that JWs are baptized fully aware of what they are getting in to is a fucking liar.
W
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Billzfan23
Just wanted to say that the recording was quite possibly the coolest thing I have ever heard! I even burned it to a CD and put it in my car to listen to again later. Kudos to you dude!
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mcsemike
To "Get Busy Living": Thanks for the comments. Sorry I was so nice to them, I was too happy that day. LOL.
Someday I'll post what's REALLY on my mind about the WT.
I should send them a Christmas card and maybe.....Valentine's Day!!!
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Wasanelder Once
Finally,
What you object to having not been given knowledge of, was not what I was talking about. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear in the discussion.
I was referring to the knowledge that anyone joining the organization is fully aware that JC's exist. They know they are subject to them by virtue of their baptism and joining of the organization They know that if they deviate from the teachings that they will be subjected to such a procedure. When someone learns the truth about the "Truth" they are aware they will not be met with fairness. They also know that if they are not entering the meeting with sincerity they will be met with a lack of understanding. If they lie to the brothers they most certainly aren't going to be met with respect. Everyone can read this in the Watchtower, the magazine they accepted as coming from God's spokesman, (gag). It's no secret that a JC will dismiss anyone who disagrees.
w92 7/1 p. 19 Elders, Judge With Righteousness
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On the other hand, when members of a judicial committee are confronted with a clear case of remorseless apostasy, willful rebellion against Jehovah’s laws, or sheer wickedness, their duty is to protect the other members of the congregation by disfellowshipping the unrepentant offender. The judicial committee is not obliged to meet repeatedly with the wrongdoer or put words in his mouth, trying to force him to repent, if it is obvious he lacks godly sorrow
As for not being allowed a recording device during a JC, that's irrelevent to people being baptized. The only ones who want to record their JC are those who are combatant or want to expose some injustice or have an opposing agenda. I'm not saying that those feelings aren't valid by any means. Those who want to stay in the club and are "repentent" would never consider doing anything so radical, therefore why would anyone even think of advising that no recording is allowed? lol.
I didn't mean to indicate that everyone is told before being baptized that they can't have a recorder at their JC, its superflous to those who play the game according to the WT rules. They don't need to be told. Anyone who has to record the proceedings doesn't want to be a witness anyway, so what's the point?
Now, as far as not having a witness along, there you have a point. Its unfair for sure that its not allowed, though as we saw from this recorded JC it was allowed, go figure.
W.Once
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Lady Liberty
Dear Shaolu,
Welcome to the forum! I read the transcripts, then a friend called me and said I had to listen to the JC meeting. As it truely showed the appauling attitude the so called shephards displayed. You will find many friends here! Again welcome!
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
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johnny cip
wasan elder once.; i think the reason that next to everyone on this thread is on your ass. is the fact that. when people join the wt. thier are told how jehovahs org. system of trail is light years better than what you get at any court in the united states. how the org never lies. etc. how truth is above all else in the org. and i'm not talking about sins. i'm talking about when a jw finds out the wt lied to them . at that point truth and facts. go out the window in the wt world. we all know that here. so your points are moot. as far as recording and witnesses. any court in the free world . either has a typist or recording machines to record . the trial. so the JC is like a nazi trail or even worse. that don't sound like an honest org . that is upholding god's word to me or any thinking person. you keep implying jw's know the facts before they join. let me ask you this question. name me one person that was told about all the false prophecies, flip flopping doctrines, and other wt lies . and after a year of studing everything the wt lies about . then joined to become a jw? i'll bet my last dollar that only a retarted person, would join the dubs knowing the fact before hand. and i'm sure 1000 other people here will agree with me . unless they were forced to join as kids. john
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Wasanelder Once
John, thanks for responding and clarifying why people are on me. The problem stems from people not understanding me. This could well be my fault, I admit. This thread was about a recording of a JC and the tone of the meeting. I simply stated that S knew full well what to expect. He knew what a JC was, he knew why he was being called there and like all other JW's he knows the basic way the system works. All JW's are taught that there is a judicial system. They are taught that three brothers meet with "wrongdoers, accused" etc. That's why I was saying that I felt that the person recording the JC was goading them by lying as he did. I wasn't defending the doctrine.
The issue wasn't if people are lied to about the teachings and their origions, that's a given. That's why we're here. With so many out for blood over their treatment, the slightest appeal to reason is viewed as extreme. As I said, the whole study course is layed out in such a way that all baptism candidates know that this structure exists. When a person learns the truth about the truth and is called before them to account for their new choice, that person should know what to expect. It is no surprise that the defenders of the faith will be both kurt and intolerant. That's the point. To pretend that they are not showing mercy when one has already decided to leave and doesn't act with honesty towards them is not painting the correct picture.
Hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from. Agree or disagree, thats the beauty of freedom from groupthink.
W.Once
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rebel8
Personally I was made aware of the jc process while going through the baptism prep, and I was aware of it already because disfellowshipping happened on a very regular basis in my kingkongregation. However, I know from participating on these boards that the jw experience is far from universal, though they claim it is. Rules are not consistent across the globe.
"To pretend that they are not showing mercy when one has already decided to leave and doesn't act with honesty towards them is not painting the correct picture."
You do have a point there, but then that begs the question, how did the elders know he had already decided to leave? I don't hear/read him giving them any inkling of that. They decided to df him before he even opened his mouth. He repeatedly said he wants to be corrected. It is their duty to do that. If they surmised from his body language or tone of voice that his request was disingenuous, they should have asked him about his body language or tone of voice instead of just kicking him out.
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Mary
Russell: Our—our purpose in being here is—is not to debate these things, but to find out... if... whether you agree or disagree with what you've been taught from infancy...if you do not believe... that the anointed... on the Earth today... are directed by the governing body today then we have no more discussion.
There just aren't enough eyes to roll at this sort of stupid mentality. Their entire lives revolve around this central teaching which has absolutely no scriptural backing whatsoever, yet they get pissed off when asked to prove it by a member of the flock? Wow....somehow, I just can't imagine those in the first century congregation, or Jesus himself, saying something so absurd. Whatever happened to "make sure of all things" and "examining the scriptures carefully to see if these things are so"??? Oh I forgot. That applies to everyone except Jehovah's Witnesses.
I forwarded this tape along with the transcript to the pastor of the church I've been going to. He initially though I was playing a joke on him but soon realized I wasn't. He was absolutely speechless after listening to this 21st century version of a Spanish Inquisition and was appalled that anyone calling himself a minister of Christ could possibly treat someone in their fold like this. He told me "...there is supposed to be freedom and love in Christ, not slavery to doctrines that are highly questionable. What I just heard certainly does not promote either freedom or love and is certainly not the way Jesus taught the church to act."
It's funny, but before sites like this started, I think alot of people just thought that Jehovah's Witnesses were somewhat strange, but benign. Now, more and more people can see that the religion is far more evil and controlling than what they ever suspected. I know of some Witnesses who are angry, frustrated and embarassed when they go to the doors now, because so many people seem to know more about what's going on in the religion than what they do, and they have no answer. Hopefully, it'll make them stop and think and question this stupid religion.......