When is a fade finished?

by Nellie 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  willyloman

  are basing your conclusion on something you know nothing about. Only an idiot does that.

  Actually, I know quite a lot about this subject. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm not an idiot, of course. Why are you so angry on this topic?

  My conclusion is based on actual case studies. Unless you have sat with a group of elders and seen their reaction when they read these letters, you can't really know how they react to them. Let me tell you how: First, they read the first few sentences, determine that it is a letter of disassociation, then scan to find the "I don't want to be a member' clause, and close the book on it.

  The letter goes in a sealed file. No one else sees it. The few elders who actually held the letter in their hands did not even read the whole thing. They don't have to. They've just been given permission - by the letter writer - to act in authority and exorcise the unrepentant evil-doer who penned these words, who in their collective view is acting under the direct influence of Satan. This frees them to act promptly with the authority that the writer has just confirmed.

  My advice was simply not to give them that satisfaction. Force them to make a decision on their own. Perhaps it will trouble the conscience of at least one of them.

  However, I do recognize everyone has a different situation. Not everyone has the circumstances, or the courage, to successfully fade. If you feel you need to send them an FU letter, that's your personal call.
• 

  looking_glass

  That doesn't necessarily mean I'm not an idiot, of course

  Well Willy, clearly you are a dope because you are wearing white shorts and clearly you are going surfing. Come on, everyone knows you should NOT wear a white suit when you go swimming. Sheesh!

  Now w/ re to the subject at hand ... I faded, but I also moved far away to a big city in order to go away and have no one come after me. My family are lifers in the religion and I know that will not change. They tow the party line "trust in Jah" mistakes of the WTBTS are chalked up to "light getting brighter". Blah, blah, blah JW BS. I faded in order to be respectful of my family. But there are times when I still look over my shoulder because of the fear that was instilled into me at birth.

  Fading is not a chicken sheet way out, it is in some cases a harder process then simply walking way. I am not saying that one is better than another, what I am saying is that for each person their situation is different and we cannot simply look at another human and project our own experience on them. Whether in and pretending, or fader, or DF'd or DA'd, congrats to all who have reached their own conclusions in life and are doing their best to live within those confines.
• 

  TheListener

  If you have an active spouse who isn't happy that you've left the WTS your fade may never be over. The elders can't forget about you if your wife and kids show up at every meeting - alone.

  The WTS has stated that if someone isn't viewed by the community as a dub then it wouldn't be necessary to take judicial action for wrongdoing. How long this takes and whether someone can ever attain it is up to each individual body of elders.

  I've known some who were out for 15 years get df'd for something. I've seen others who were only out a year or so get away with some serious sinning.
• 

  Finally-Free

  Unless you have sat with a group of elders and seen their reaction when they read these letters, you can't really know how they react to them.

  I'm certain the elders didn't give a sh*t for my thoughts even when I was a JW in good standing, so I assume that applied even moreso when I made my exit. On a personal level, I didn't like elders anyway, so it didn't bother me to see them continue wasting their lives in the cult. I agree that pointing out doctrinal errors and policy concerns is a waste of time. They wouldn't care even if they bothered reading it, but as per the legal advice I was given, a letter telling them to get out of my life and cease and desist their harassment and trespassing would strengthen a court case should they continue with their harassment.

  W
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  This argument about whether writing a DA letter gives them authority or not,
  and whether fading is the winner's way or not- I will say my piece.

  There are many valid reasons to do either. A person who wants to freely
  move on with his life without hiding his newfound freedoms, might want to
  attend a church or put up decorations at his home, or get remarried or whatever
  without having to move to a new home where the JW's don't know him. He could
  just let them DF him or he could DA. For many, the DA says "I didn't do anything
  wrong" or "I quit on you guys, don't bother me." The ignoring them and letting them
  DF you is a statement of "NO authority over me."

  The successful fade can mean contact with family or friends, but it might involve
  ducking the elders when you are smoking or churching or whatever. It's not easy
  and it doesn't allow me to say what I would love to say to the elders. Of course,
  saying something to the elders is not really accomplishing anything, but it gives
  closure to the cult victim who's finally free. I have to get my closure elsewhere.

  You are all right in some ways (you on both sides of the issue) and need to
  recognize the reasons that others choose other ways than you do.
• 

  james_woods

  Looking_Glass has this exactly right:

  "Fading is not a chicken sheet way out, it is in some cases a harder process then simply walking way. I am not saying that one is better than another, what I am saying is that for each person their situation is different and we cannot simply look at another human and project our own experience on them. Whether in and pretending, or fader, or DF'd or DA'd, congrats to all who have reached their own conclusions in life and are doing their best to live within those confines."

  ________

  It occurs to me that probably nobody just makes an immediate snap decision to walk away...probably there is some form or aspect of "fading" for at least a little while even in the case of people who just say "I QUIT".

  It also occurs to me what a great value "faders" are giving to their fellow JWs during the time they are still associated but are seeing the facts of life clearly for the first time - a lot of this logical thinking cannot help but rub off on a few others...

  James
• 

  Nellie

  It's amazing how a little time can change your decisions about things. My son graduated from high school 2 years ago. During his HS days, his school always did a holiday fundraiser in the mall where they wrapped holiday gifts. Of course, this was something that we never participated in. Even his senior year, when we were beginning our "fade" - I remember saying to him, "How would you feel if a witness walked by and you were behind the booth wrapping gifts?" Which in translation was: "I'm not ready to be confronted by my desire to leave the organization."

  Well, fast forward 2 years - today we were walking the mall and happened upon the booth. Even though he's out of the school, he still knew a few of the people there and it was really crowded. We both jumped in and stayed for 2 hours wrapping gifts. It wasn't until I was riding home that I had the thought, "I wonder if anyone saw us. Ohh well, whatever, I don't care."

  Man, times have changed!
• 

  willyloman

  Nellie:

  I just printed out what you wrote and showed it to my family. That's precisely the evolution we're experiencing now!

  Merry Christmas to you and yours, and on New Year's don't forget to drink a toast to FREEDOM!
• 

  PoppyR

  I can see the upside to DAing - just knowing that it's over - maybe it's a female thing - needing closure.

  I hear you sister I feel I am almost there with the fade (about a year) but have still not put up Christmas lights etc. I think there is a certain freedom to the DA. Recently I thought I may be DFd, but it seems the elders have decided to let it go. I have a large extended witness family, but was almost disappointed that at last it would be OVER!

  But I am very interested to read about your son.. did they believe what they had been taught, and if so how did they deal with your leaving the borg? I have boys (pre-teen) one who utterly believes the JW thing and gets upset if I try and reason with him, guess I did a really good job on him What is your experience? Or anybody elses!

  Poppy
• 

  Quandry

  Good question!!

  A side point--I think you look very debonaire in the white shorts, Willyloman, and I tend to agree with your assesment of matters, although I realize others may view things differently. My hubbie was an elder for over twenty years. He knows the big head they get from excercising authority over others. They do not want to be viewed as insignificant--they way they view others.

  We have been away for two years now, and are aware that the congregation was given "warning talks" about not going along with the authority of elders when they disfellowship someone (in this case, our teen daughter, after being falsely accused, and treated as worthless).

  For many months we hid behind closed front curtains, devastated that this could happen to a family as dedicated and servile as we were. My husband would not even mow the front yard unless I was outside with him.

  Now he says that next year we will have lights at Christmas outside. We no longer feel their authority in our case and will tell them so. We have nothing to fear from them. If they want to df us, they can make up stuff to do it for like they did to our child.

  I do feel that this will, for us, be a satisfying feeling--to tell them they are of utterly no importance to us and we will not-yes-play their back room kangaroo court games.