An Abortion question, a Christian paradox?

by free2beme 31 Replies latest jw friends

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  kid-A

  Sad Emo, page 4 had some interesting rebuttals, such as this:

  "In theory, legal abortion reduces murder by being, in effect, "prenatal capital punishment." But, first, it's not very efficient. Like Herod, we have to eradicate many to get the one we want. While genes and upbringing do affect criminality, there's so much randomness that predicting the destiny of individual fetuses is hard."

  However, I disagree for the most part particularly the concept that we have to "eradicate many to get the one we want". The fact is, the vast majority of abortions take place amongst poor, uneducated and poverty stricken women. IMHO, its not a black/white issue, its an issue of limited access to reliable contraceptives and sex education amongst the poor. But in the end it doesn't matter, and the jury is still out as to how much control a human being actually has outside the limitations of genetic and environmental backgrounds. The effects on society of poor, disadvantaged and uneducated mothers living in poverty and giving birth to unwanted, unloved children is cumulative and exponential. Its merely common sense that eliminating or at least reducing the "pool" of children forced into existence and then living in squalor and despair will naturally cut the incidence of future criminal development in a linear fashion.

  But there is another issue that is not discussed: access to abortion may provide a second chance to young, uneducated and poor women for whom having to look after a child would completely remove the possibility of getting an education, a good job, etc etc. I.E. allowing these women the chance to create a life for themselves wherein it WOULD be a good environment for raising healthy, happy and loved children. Should a broken condom or moment of thoughtless unprotected sex be a permanent sentence of doom not only on the woman but also upon a child that was created unintentionally? Unwanted children are invariably, unloved children.
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  Sad emo

  Kid-A

  However, I disagree for the most part particularly the concept that we have to "eradicate many to get the one we want".

  But this is what is being suggested (as I see it) in free2beme's initial post -

  Let's abort all the unwanted foetuses just in case one of them grows up feeling angry and turns into a mass murderer

  And don't forget - Herod still didn't get the one he wanted!! (cf my view that a bad person can equally come from a loving home, possibly less likely I agree, but still possible).

  access to abortion may provide a second chance to young, uneducated and poor women for whom having to look after a child would completely remove the possibility of getting an education, a good job, etc etc. I.E. allowing these women the chance to create a life for themselves wherein it WOULD be a good environment for raising healthy, happy and loved children.

  I agree with you in principle on this - but what if the woman doesn't actually want to get an education and/or job? Is it acceptable to let her have continued abortions or should a line be drawn somewhere - enforced sterilisation perhaps.

  --------------------

  Here in the UK, we have sex education and free contraceptives coming out of our ears, it's not working. There is something gone badly wrong with society.
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  Schism

  Here's my situation:

  I'm not too poor or uneducated to have kids. The truth is, the earth is over-populated. There are too many people here, period. Not only that, but if I were to have kids, it would be selfish of me. For every child that is born, one more will have to live as an orphan.

  My interest is in animals. I have always had a passion about adopting from pounds and shelters to help ease some of the suffering (every little bit helps). I also would love to pursue a degree in biology for the sake of helping wildlife.

  If I ever decided I needed a human child, I would want to save one from life as an orphan. But since I don't feel maternal instincts towards human kids, I don't think that will happen. Either way, I want to spend my life helping things that need me, not creating more living things!

  Bottom line, by being self-less and wanting to help others, I am pro-choice and would have an abortion if my choice in contraception ever failed. Of course, I would never wait until late in the pregnancy to do it because it is painful for the fetus. But while it is still an embryo, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's not my place to add to the problem of overpopulation on earth.

  Victims of rape should not need an excuse to have an abortion. They were forced into a situation already. Why should they also be forced into motherhood? I don't believe in compromising one's emotional wellbeing for the sake of an embryo.

  As for others who tend to think abortion is a good form of contraception, bad idea! It should be a last resort only. I've never had one, and hopefully never will.

  I hope no one here takes this stuff the wrong way. I feel pain for anything I see suffering, and I have a big heart. Because of this, I could not dedicate my life to raising a child. It's just not helping matters. That's my personal decision. For anyone who says that I shouldn't have sex if that is the case, sex is part of my emotional wellbeing and my relationship with the person I chose as my partner, and I am not willing to sacrifice that for the sake of a possible future embryo either. Everyone has to choose their priorities, it's part of life.
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  Schism

  I should also add that I have tried to find a doctor who would sterilize me so that this would never become an issue, but it appears that the general concensus with doctors is that I have to have children before they would agree to the procedure.

  It's not fair that I have no choice as to what to do on my own body, but I do have the option of having however many abortions I want. Proof that there is a problem with the system. I would MUCH rather have my tubes tied than to have an abortion. It seems like some of the rules that are in place cause abortions in the first place by not granting childless women the right to sterilization.
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  JWdaughter

  THe original posts idea to me seems like an argument for killing off all future generations. Who really knows about people, their parenting skills or motivations? Would that idea not just ensure that NO one would grow up to be a criminal? Come on, many people who end up being horrid are not abused by their natural parents. Caregivers, neighbors 'loving' grandparents. One cannot justify abortion by that measurement. If we want to save all children to Christ, then should we just kill ALL unborn babies? In fact have LOTS of pregnancies and abort them so that there will be more saved to Christ? Thats insane.

  I personally think abortion is a short sighted solution to a temporary problem. In these days, there is no reason for a woman not to carry a child to term unless there is a real medical reason. If the reason is religious-hell, I have no sympathy for religions which are crazy enough to punish or people who are nuts enough to kill their children to avoid punishment by their religion. OTOH, the world isn't that simple, so while I don't think its a good thing, I am not judging others decisions.

  I went through some horrific issues with my first, personally and medically. Would still do it again. Not the horrors. but the decision to keep him (the preg. and the baby). I had every good 'social reason' to abort, every good medical reason, and every good excuse to adopt him out. I didn't. I'm glad. He is smart, beautiful, talented. Totally obnoxious, but he is 18. I am told its temporary!
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  free2beme

  My question is not to encourage people to get an abortion. It is about the Christian paradox to say abortion is wrong, and yet teach that the unborn child would go to heaven and perhaps have a better reward then their life would have led them too. How can you feel both ways about the issue?
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  cabasilas

  "My question is not to encourage people to get an abortion. It is about the Christian paradox to say abortion is wrong, and yet teach that the unborn child would go to heaven and perhaps have a better reward then their life would have led them too. How can you feel both ways about the issue?"
  
  I'm not sure I understand the paradox. Say, if we changed this to infanticide instead. Would it make sense if your comment read this way?:
  
  My question is not to encourage infanticide. It is about the Christian paradox to say infanticide is wrong, and yet teach that the child would go to heaven and perhaps have a better reward then their life would have led them too. How can you feel both ways about the issue?
  
  Or, what if we changed this to heroic means to rescue a child from a life-threatening illness:
  
  Are Christian parents inconsistent when they try to save their children from life-threatening diseases?
  
  No, for they value free will.
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  free2beme

  cabasilas

  So your saying that we need free will. Does Christianity allow this, or does it create a paradox of saying abortion is wrong and yet a child that dies young is allowed to go to heaven in the same way as a person who lived a good long life is?
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  cabasilas

  If there's a paradox, it really has little to do with abortion. The same "paradox" could be seen in rejecting infanticide or in trying to prevent the death of a child from illness.
  
  Most Christians believe in the idea of free will.
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  Sad emo

  It is about the Christian paradox to say abortion is wrong, and yet teach that the unborn child would go to heaven and perhaps have a better reward then their life would have led them too. How can you feel both ways about the issue?

  I still don't think there is any real paradox here, free2beme, it's a purely hypothetical question.

  It still comes down to the fact that, even disregarding the religious element of the question, we do not knowhow a child will turn out. That's not a 'self-righteous, fundy Christian' answer - it's life, period!

  There are too many variables, more than whether we are raised in a loving environment or not. So yes, other than the 'killing is wrong' argument, that'sanother reason partly why a Christian would say abortion is wrong (I think the 'smart' term used for this is 'denying potential').