Our Elder was a genius at stealing from the kinghall fund. Every time he needed to repair his house or needed new wall to wall carpet, he would tell the cong they needed this and that for their KH repairs. He then proceded to order twice the amount and charge it to the Funds to the KH...His excuse was he only took the scraps left over and was doing us a favor. After a while his house had a resemblence to our KH. Some of us knew what he was doing but others never knew the wiser.
DID ANY ELDERS HAVE THEIR HANDS IN THE KH TILL?
by badboy 28 Replies latest jw friends
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GermanXJW
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w944/15pp.19-21IsItReallyTheft?***Is
ItReallyTheft?[...]Occasionally, however, circumstances may seem to blur the line between what is honest and what is not. Consider this situation. Festus, who cared for the contributions and accounts in a congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in West Africa, was in desperate need of money. His wife needed a serious operation that her doctors said should not be delayed. The hospital demanded half the money in advance.
Festus lacked the money. When he approached several people for a loan, he was turned down. Then he thought of the money in his care and reasoned, ‘Is it right for me to let my wife risk death when I can do something to prevent it? Why not "borrow" from the congregation cash? I can return it when some people pay me what they owe me.’
Festus used that money that was not his to pay the hospital. Was his reasoning correct? Was his action justifiable in view of the emergency situation he faced?
Whose
MoneyIsIt?In analyzing these questions, let us briefly review a few points concerning the source and purpose of money such as Festus took. The funds come through voluntary contributions made by members of the congregation who want to further Jehovah’s pure worship. (2 Corinthians 9:7) It is not used to pay salaries, since no one is paid for what they do in the congregation. On the contrary, the contributed money is used mainly to obtain and care for a meeting place, usually a Kingdom Hall. This provides a convenient and comfortable location where people—young and old, rich and poor—can meet for Bible instruction.
Whose money is it? It belongs to the congregation collectively. No individual member determines how the money is to be spent. While the body of elders directs payment of routine congregational expenses, when an unusual payment is called for, the elders present the matter to the entire congregation for approval.
Borrowing
orTheft?Because of his plan to replace the money as quickly as possible, Festus viewed his action as borrowing. However, Webster’sNewDictionaryofSynonyms uses other words regarding "the taking and removing of another’s property usually by stealth or without his knowledge and always without his consent." The words are "theft" and "thief." Without permission or authorization, Festus took money that belonged to the congregation. So, yes, he was guilty of theft. He was a thief.
Of course, there are degrees of reprehensibility in the motivation behind theft. We can see that from the example of Judas Iscariot, who was entrusted with caring for the money held by Jesus and the faithful apostles. The Bible says: "[Judas] was a thief and had the money box and used to carry off the monies put in it." (John 12:6) Motivated by a bad heart and outright greed, Judas went from bad to worse. Eventually he sank to betraying the Son of God—for 30 pieces of silver.—Matthew 26:14-16.
Festus, however, was motivated by concern for his ailing wife. Does this mean that he was without blame? By no means. Consider what the Bible says about theft in another seeming emergency situation: "People do not despise a thief just because he commits thievery to fill his soul when he is hungry. But, when found, he will make it good with seven times as much; all the valuables of his house he will give." (Proverbs 6:30, 31) In other words, when caught, the thief must face the full penalty of the law. According to the Mosaic Law, a thief was to pay for his crime. So rather than encourage or excuse theft, the Bible warns that even in emergency situations, stealing can result in economic loss, disgrace, and most seriously, a loss of God’s approval.
As Witnesses of Jehovah, all true Christians, especially those entrusted with responsibilities within the congregation, must be exemplary, "free from accusation." (1 Timothy 3:10) Festus did not receive the money he was expecting, and thus he was not able to replace the money he had taken. What he had done became known. What happened to him? Had he been an unrepentant thief, he would have been expelled from the clean Christian congregation. (1 Peter 4:15) But he was cut to the heart and did repent. Hence, he could remain in the congregation, although he lost his privileges of service.
Trusting
inGodThe apostle Paul warned that stealing by a person who claims to serve Jehovah can bring reproach on God’s name and His name people. Paul wrote: "Do you, . . . the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching ‘Do not steal,’ do you steal? For ‘the name of God is being blasphemed on account of you people.’"—Romans 2:21, 24.
Agur, a wise man of ancient times, made the same point. In his prayer he asked that he might "not come to poverty and . . . actually steal and assail the name of [his] God." (Proverbs 30:9) Notice that the wise man acknowledged that poverty can bring about circumstances that might tempt even a righteous person to steal. Yes, hard times can test a Christian’s faith in Jehovah’s ability to care for the needs of his people.
Yet, loyal Witnesses of Jehovah, including those who are poor, have faith that God "becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him." (Hebrews 11:6) They know that Jehovah rewards his faithful ones by helping them to care for their needs. Jesus made that clear in his Sermon on the Mount, saying: "Never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to put on?’ . . . For your heavenly Father knows you need all these things. Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you."—Matthew 6:31-33.
How does God provide for needy ones in the Christian congregation? In many ways. One is through fellow believers. God’s people display genuine love for one another. They take seriously the Biblical admonition: "Whoever has this world’s means for supporting life and beholds his brother having need and yet shuts the door of his tender compassions upon him, in what way does the love of God remain in him? Little children, let us love, neither in word nor with the tongue, but in deed and truth."—1 John 3:17, 18.
Throughout the world, in more than 73,000 congregations, over four and a half million Witnesses of Jehovah diligently strive to serve God according to his righteous principles. They know that God will never abandon his loyal ones. Those who have served Jehovah for many years raise their voices in agreement with King David, who wrote: "A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, and yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, nor his offspring looking for bread."—Psalm 37:25.
How much better to put faith in the God who inspired those words, rather than ever let oneself be tempted to steal and possibly lose God’s favor forever!—1 Corinthians 6:9, 10.
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badboy
THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR REPLIES!
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wozadummy
Here's my post on another thread........
geevee said
It must be possible in some way or other. Some of these guys are in positions of trust, and some are trustee's for the ownership of Halls. I have heard about some Aussie guy from Adelaide, South Australia who used a K Hall as security for a loan that went belly up and the hall was repossessed!
Knorr used to have two first class seats on the plane, one for him and one for his witnessing bag. Well that is pretty right , this happened in the eightees I think in the Adelaide hills area of Mt.Barker and he was was an elder and one the top honchos at the time on the quick build committee for the district ,you know the type, lotsa relatives as JW's ,a big arrogant attitude about himself and had too much power over the affairs of the quick builds. Of course had the mates in bethel etc. so had the freedom to put up WTS property as back up for his business as a builder. For some time I would hear of trades people not getting paid by him to do his private work so he must have looked for an easy option...take the brothers money. I believe one relative also was a builder and corrupt the same way for someone stuck some jelly in a concrete slab of his and blew it up! When this first brother got caught out he would stand at the assembly hall doors and hand out programs "humbly" and I complained to his elder cronie mates who ran the assembly hall that a normal publisher would not get priveleges like he did if they sinned like him - well that did not go welll! Now this is the clincher......people wanted to take the WTS property away legally as they were owed money by this blokes business and he had put up as collateral WTS property and it did not look good for the society losing out ,so do you know what they did..................................... They begged for money donations at local Kingdom Halls for them to defray the cost of littigation and loss of property!!!!!!! I'm not sure how it all turned out for we moved interstate at the time but that elder did get DF"d some time later but I don't know if it was for the reason above. My wife and I would be challenged at the doors from householders about this affair when witnessing and we lived about 40 km away! So I guess you can siphon from the society ,for when we moved interstate the first congregation we went to there asked me to audit the Kingdom Hall books, and when I asked them why me? they said the brother that did the books for the past few years had just been caught out for stealing tens of thousands of dollars and they wanted someone new and independent to audit them...whew it goes on..... -
confusedjw
It's easy to pocket $$$$$$$$ while doing the collection process.
At my insistance we started a two person policy for collecting money back in the 80's - but not because anyone suspected anyone, but for appearances sake. I found the brothers and sisters very faithful in this regard.
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penny2
Bumped this thread because it's a topic I'm interested in at the moment
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Iamallcool
no I do not know any elders personally that steal money out of the box, but I know someone stole the money out of the contribution box here in the USA and he got df'd for that. Last time I heard that he is in Jail in France some years ago for theft. He is probably out of Jail by now. I do not know.
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St George of England
In a lifetime as a JW I have only known of one case of 'theft'.
This was in the days of group studies and was discovered during the quarterly audit. The brother in question was interviewed by the elders and he paid back the money and nothing further was said or done. He left the congregation shortly afterwards and I have not seen or heard of him since.
Some of the cases related here are quite interesting. An accounts servant that never saw a Bank Statement!! It was his DUTY to balance the statement every month. He should have DEMANDED the statements from the CoBE or PO and any resistance reported to the Circuit Overseer and/or WTS. What happened during the audit and the discussion with the Accounts Servant, Auditor and CoBE?
In fact if all concerned with the accounts follow the procedures detailed in the WTS Accounting Instructions there is litle opportunity for stealing or misuse of funds.
George
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DaCheech
stealing is hard, because you have a couple of brothers mirroring you.
I was accounts servant, and did it for 10 years.
if there was enough effort at hand trickery, there could be the possibility of strealing a bill ($5-$100) during the collectionm process.