Deception in the Elder/MS Appointment Arrangement

deaconbluez

The Society claims that all appointments of elders and ministerial servants in the congregation are made by Holy Spirit. Now, the inexperienced or new Witness is under the impression that Jehovah, by means of His holy spirit, puts it into the hearts and minds of the body of elders that so-and-so is ready to serve, and the appointment happens accordingly.

But they actually employ a sort of deception with this process, because when they say, "holy spirit directs all appointments of men in the congregation", they actually mean that each brother considered for appointment is examined to see if he has the qualities listed by Paul in his letter to Timothy about the qualities of congregation shepherds. So they reason that since that writing of Paul's was inspired by holy spirit, then by extension, the appointments which happen as a result of using that list of qualities to examine an individual, the appointment is made by holy spirit.

This is like saying that people are hand-picked by Simon for American Idol because the regional producers of the show use a list of things to look for in contestants and that list just happened to be written by Simon.

Anybody with common sense knows that a man can fake these qualities, and make everybody at the Kingdom Hall think that he is a good man and displays holy conduct. This is how corrupt men, men seeking position and authority, and even child molestors get into positions of authority within the organization. It's not because Jehovah "allows it to happen in order to test people". That's ridiculous.

Most people in the organization would not be able to correctly explain the "official" stance on how holy spirit directs appointments. If they did know, it would probably cause much more doubt.

Any thoughts?

MadTiger

Very good way of wording it.

Very good example.

This foolishness is one of the main reasons that sparked my departure, but after finding out other things (thanks, JWDF!), I decided to remain out.

OnTheWayOut

Okay, I will agree with you on the appointment part, but

Most people in the organization would not be able to correctly explain the "official" stance on how holy spirit directs appointments. If they did know, it would probably cause much more doubt.

The "doubt" part, I am not so sure of. The arrangement is not secretive, except some might think that Jehovah actually tells the Governing Body who is okay. Those people are the rare exception. The congregation accepts these men as "Spiritual" and if it ever changes,
the devil got to them- after all, it is Satan's world. The one that gets me is- If an elder sinned some years ago, and it is determined that it was a minor offense, and he's been good since then, the fact that he has been such a good elder in the years since proves Jehovah's spirit continued upon him and he doesn't need to be removed. SO- cover it up for a few years and give good talks, confess only if it bothers your conscience. That's a good elder. THE MAJOR REASON I CITED FOR STEPPING ASIDE. (I couldn't say- WTS is a cult!)

deaconbluez

Ok OntheWayOut,

I don't really agree with you because that's just how blind the average Witness follows along with what's going on. They are told, "Oh, he was appointed by holy spirit to be an elder", and that's good enough for them!

For instance, my grandmother, dead now, one of the first witnesses in the city, baptized in the 30's, died a faithful witness. Well, about 5 years ago when she was around 80, she allowed her disfellowshipped granddaughter to move in with her. This brought 2 rather new and inexperienced elders to her house to give her the "inquisition". It pissed her off magnificently. She had been pioneering for 20 years before these men were even born! But when she and I talked about the incident, she would say, "But I know that holy spirit appointed them so I have to yeild to their direction." And I picked her brain more on this. By the end of the conversation, I had gotten out of her that she actually thought that holy spirit swept through the Kingdom Hall into the brains of the elders and chanted, "This man is ready to be appointed". But its nothing of the sort. And that is truly how the average witness thinks it happens.

I could walk into any random kingdom hall, put on an act, be something I'm not, brown-nose the right people, and I could be appointed in no more than a year. Just because somebody passes the 1 Timothy chapter 3 exam doesn't mean that its who they actually are.

OnTheWayOut

You could fake the test, granted.
At first, I wanted to say that your grandmother is not the average JW, but
you make a good case. Many JW's will blindly listen to the elders. I know
I've tried to allow some sisters to make a decision before about how to clean
or cover territory or something trivial, and they said: You're the elder.

I concede that it is a mind-control cult. Sometimes I forget that I was not the
average witness. Many of my friends were not either. You could be right.

restrangled

Lets get real here...

There is no Holy Spirit involved, just positions that have to be filled and if you somehow manage to "fit the mold" you get the position.

This was the case where I came from. I remember the assembly this whole thing was announced at. Everyone was looking around wondering who would be the new "Older Men" (Gasp, shock, Awe at the new light)

Here is what happened, the oldest men in the hall were initially given the positions because there was no one to "oversee" who would get them. Our Presiding overseer had been called on the carpet for bad business dealings so who was going to say who got what position?

They just kind of assumed the roles and it was confirmed by "headquarters"...

After several years when I was ousted at age 16, it was found out the elders judging, were themselves up to such no good it was incredible, .....Adultry, bad business dealings, etc., etc. Yet they wanted me hung and they did it without a JC meeting. That was why my case was reversed along with the fact it was considered date rape and these morons, even back then could of had there hindends sued off.

r.

deaconbluez

Yes, and the worst part about corrupt elders is how the congregation just says, "Well, Jehovah let them stay in their position so it would serve as a test of faith." How can that thinking be justified? That would be like me saying that I was going to stand by and watch as my son got molested because it would be my way of "testing" him to see if he would defend himself. Absolutely ridiculous to profess a relationship with a "loving, heavenly Father" and then think that He would put His children through such things.

yesidid

If the appointments were by Holy Spirit, why then, just before the announcement, are the prospective elders

(who have already been approved by the branch) asked:

"Is there any reason why you shound not be appointed an elder?"

Surely that is an insult to the Holy Spirit which/who should have ferreted out any problems before the office gave approval.

avidbiblereader

I was an elder and I remember sitting through these meetings with the CO and the meetings prior to the CO and the one subject that ALWAYS came up was their field service time. No one was appointed to either MS or elder if they didn't have the average or better of 10 hours. This always haunted me as there is NO field service arrangement qualifications for either appointment. I have seen plenty of men be appointed who didn't measure up on these issues and especially when no one was around to notice the things that Paul mentioned but average at least 10 hours a month whether legitimately counted or not. I never could go along with this and think that when Paul said older man, he meant older man. I have seen the inexperience of myself when I use to be an elder and the inexperience of others who made it by the 30 year old mark. In the OT Jehovah was careful to put the age of certain services in the army or temple. Those ages didn't mean they were an older man, actually some of it meant that they were a younger man full of vitalilty. FS hours should have never been the measuring stick and it always was.

abr

juni

Good points made by all of you. I was one to believe that the h. spirit directed the appointments because these brothers were to meet the scriptural requirements.

As time went on though, a brother whom I had known since I was baptized (actually he was baptized later) was appointed to be PO after serving as an elder. He was good friends w/the existing PO - they took vacations together, etc. My kids played w/his kids and his wife was known for being the cong. gossip. I became aware through my kids and observation and his wife was always ragging about him that he did not practice what he preached. Swearing, silent treatments to his family, having a home business w/o notifying the community, and other things.

So with that situation and another one of an elder who lost his privilege due to porn, etc. and then reinstated in a year and back into the BOEs, I changed my feelings about the h. spirit appointing the elders.

There are those members who do not know the flip side of some of the elders. So they think they are appointed by h. spirit.

Juni

Deception in the Elder/MS Appointment Arrangement

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