Huge news everyone! I recently had a breakthrough with my mom. We were debating last night for several hours, during which time brought up the Mexico/Malawi situation, which she of course being a faithful and blind witness, knew nothing about. After appealing to the best of my knowledge to whatever common sense she has left, she finally agreed that if I can prove it to her, she would look at the evidence. She confidently reassured me that it never happened simply because she doesn't believe the GB would ever do that. So before she forgets, she needs to hear the facts. Now I desperately need to know about this because if anyone is familiar with my mom, they know how monumental this is. Here's what I need to know.
1) The complete account of what, when, how and why regarding what happened in Mexico and Malawi. It's been a while since I read Ray Franz's book and I can't remember exactly what happened.
2) Any possible excuses or "explanitions" the watchtower might have wrote in their literature. She needs to see proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that the watchtower is guilty of thousands of senseless deaths.
3) What is the best way to show her this information? She is 100 percent convinced that the Governing Body is the mouthpeice of God and I'm afraid this will cause her very serious emotional distress! How do I present the facts in a clear and unbiasd manner?
Thank you everyone so much, I appreciate anything you can give me. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but I can't help but to be excited, she even said she wants to know more about the United Nations scandal too! But that's a different subject. I know I'm treading on very thin ice right now. If she suspects "aposate" material (her words, not mine) than she'll shut down and never listen to me again. Thanks!
Anitar
Need Help With Mexico/ Malawi!!
by Anitar 21 Replies latest watchtower scandals
-
Anitar
-
fullofdoubtnow
Hi Anitar,
As far as I know, the wts have never published anything about their policies in Mexico, it is only in Crisis of Conscience. However, this link is to a film which features Ray Franz talking about the differrence in policy between Mexico and Malawi that the wts adopted.
-
-
Atlantis
Also look in Lady Lee's "Best links file" which can provide some helpful links.
Here is another one.
http://www.jwfiles.com/mexico.htm
Cheers! Atlantis-
-
Nellie
The gist of what I remember is that the "party card" the Malawi brothers had to get was misrepresented to us - because the Malawi government is only ONE party. Not Republican/Democrat, etc. This card equates to our Social Security card - something that the government requires us to have in order to function as a citizen in the country. They were told they were not allowed to get the card which led to their imprisonment, etc. Inconceivable, I know!
In Mexico, the government required each (male?) to do one year of service in the military - after which they would get a card which proved their compliance. The way around doing the year was to bribe the officers. Each card cost $1,000 - the GB gave them the green light to pay the bribe - saving them from both doing their service and suffering the consequences of not doing their service. They got their card - while the Malawian brothers died.
-
Oroborus21
Howdy Anitar,
You can find a summary here: http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/sscc27.html
As you recall the fundamental issue is one of "Christian Neutrality." JWs believe or rather believed that a true Christian should not involve themselves with or compromise their neutrality when it comes to matters of politics and also the military. Malawi dealt with political cards and Mexico dealt with papers (the Cartilla) that verified military training. In Malawi, the Witnesses were (instructed) not to buy the cards and in Mexico the Witnesses were (instructed) that they could obtain the cards, usually through bribery.
(This was of course pre-revision of the alternative military service and compulsory civil service viewpoints (doctrine) and pre-revision of the "compulsory voting" viewpoint (doctrine) which probably would change things today.)
"Proving" this to your mom is going to be somewhat difficult. The treatment and situation of the Malawi Witnesses is easy to show from publication excerpts and from Yearbook accounts, so that side of the "scales" is easy enough to prove to your mother.
The difficulty comes in showing how the Witnesses in Mexico were treated in a completely different way and how they were permitted to obtain their cards, perhaps through participation in the (reserves) military training and more often through routine payment (bribery) of government officials.
To my knowledge, no OFFICIAL WT publications have ever even discussed the compulsory reserves military training, much less discussed how JWs either view it or what they do about it. Thus if the ONLY INFO your mom is willing to consider is Official WT literature you may be out of luck.
It is possible to prove the issue to her, if you or her KNOW any Mexican Witnesses who faced the issue and who know of the situation and who will candidly tell your mother about it. That first-hand testimony may be the only way to convince your mother.
You could also possibly TRY writing the Society and asking them NAIVELY about what their directives were to the Mexican brothers at the time and see if you get any contemporary letters that will admit what the policies were, but that is extremely unlikely to produce the evidence.
Otherwise, your mom will have to rely upon the veracity of the copies of the documents that are extent, including what was republished by Ray in CofC, that show what the official position and directives were to the Mexican Witnesses. All these copies though are going to only be available on websites or from sources she would view as questionable.
-Eduardo
PS: while you are on the subject, you might find it good to bring up what I call the "Mexican Question" which basically discusses the perplexing reason why the Witnesses were organized as a cultural association instead of as an official religion for most of the 20th Century. There are a lot of "official" citations that you can provide to show her about that topic.
-
brojo
Several years ago, the WT had a question from readers, "How can we distinguish a tip from a bribe?". Mexico was not specifically mentioned but clearly the intent was to create a smoke screen so that in the event a JW was asked about the Mexico / Malawi incident, the JW would conclude that apostates were maliciously accusing the Society of bribery when in reality it was only a tip. Witnesses want to believe the Society would never commit such wrongs. The average JW would not take the time to research what actually took place. So they will readily latch onto any explanation the Society would give. So if you bring the issue up, be prepared for your mom suggesting that they were only giving a tip to officials to get some governmental services.
-
Shawn10538
One obvious defense of the Society, not that I particularly care to defend them, but the fact that all comparisons are unfair is a defence. The card in Malawi was a card in Malawi that had a different purpose altogether than the card in Mexico. So, since the two things are not identical, why expect an identical policy for both of them? This of course does not really justify anything in real world terms because people died and you need more than a logical fallacy analysis to justify your position. But anyway, there is a defence there. But I could come up with a defence over any atrocity if I really wanted to. Shawn
-
cultswatter
just what the doctor ordered
John Bechtel a former bethelite writes about Malawi in this article :
-
rockhound
Anitar,
I did a little digging for you, and found some info on the Mexico/Malawi scandal. I hope this helps!!
I hope you are successful.
ROCKHOUND