Does the Society monitor and read this site

avidbiblereader

Does the Society monitor this site in hopes of finding witnesses crossing the line?

uninformed

I sincerely hope they read it.

Brant Jones

kwintestal

You bet they do, but they'll never admit it. It would be a poor business plan if you didn't keep up with what your competition was up to.

Kwin

I can only hope that they do with other witnesses. I am not afraid or anything like that. It might do some real good to open their minds to the thoughts and experiences of others. If they were so assured in their own minds of the truth, then listening to others shouldn't bother them. I know what I believe is the Bible and I am assured of that, it doesn't bother or scare me to hear someone elses thoughts. I am convinced from my heart. Everyone has the right to their opinions and beliefs, what are they afraid of? HMMMMMMMM

abr

Lady Liberty

Dear Avidbiblereader,

Oh yes, I am positive of that! I am not sure if you are aware of it or not but not too long ago, the Society "shut down" a website that its whole design was to give the public access to the old publications. There you could find over 259 atricles on JWs as well. It was a excellent information site!! This didn't sit too well with the organization, so they fought and the site had to close. Here is a link to that site, as well as a brief explaination of what came to a head about 1 year ago. It shows you they are definatley reading from these forums!!

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/

Watchtower shuts down Quotes website

December 25th, 2005 | Posted in: , JWs vs. the World | Keywords: Jehovah , Watchtower Society , Canada | 75 Comments

alt

WTS vs Quotes: Requiem for a Research Web Site

In compliance with the terms of a Settlement Agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now “dark”. The domain “Watchtower.ca” has been transferred to WTS (I assume they will have it pointing to ~~Borg.org~~ watchtower.org ASAP). My copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my WT Library CD has been destroyed, in accordance with the Settlement Agreement which will afford a “discontinuance” of their suit against me. (Interesting aside: a discontinuance means the suit is merely in “suspended animation”. It will always be there, waiting to thaw out, to haunt me for the rest of my life. It will become part of my estate after I’m gone. That’s just the way it works.)

The complete scan of the settlement (PDF) is available by clicking here.

It has been said that settlement negotiations are two people working toward a mutually disagreeable conclusion. Unfortunately, due to the restrictions of Paragraph 12 of the settlement, I am unable to comment on the negotiations of the settlement. However, by that same paragraph, I am able to comment on the terms of the settlement; hence I provide the details by providing the complete settlement agreement. I have nothing to hide.

Now I can put this behind me, but I am free to talk about it publicly. Of course, that will be challenging, since I agreed, as part of the settlement, to destroy all my copies of the site and also destroy my WT LIBRARY CD. But at least I will be able to tell my story. In fact, I may even write a book, or perhaps (when I dare to dream) a screenplay. I am thinking of a farcical yet fact-based comedy, with Jim Carey playing the lead. Can you imagine the high-jinx? ALLRIGHTYTHEN!

I extend my sincere and deep THANKS to everyone that offered moral support and offers of financial help.

Frequently Ask Questions

Q:Surely people here at JWD would help with legal expenses. Why did you give up so easily? I offered you money and you didn’t accept it!

A: I was truly thankful to the many people that offered money (and for the record, I did not accept any money from anyone). However, let me explain the magnitude of the finances involved so you can see how futile this was. Intellectual Property disputes are a specialty under the law. This is another way of saying IP lawyers charge a LOT of money. $500 per hour is the STARTING number, at the bottom of the scale. If my case went to trial, I could easily be up to $50,000 to $100,000 before ever getting in front of a judge, just with all the pre-trial motions, discovery, mandated mediation, legal research, etc. Once finally in court, costs can be $10,000 PER DAY.

If I added up all the wonderful offers of assistance, I would have, perhaps, $2,000 to $3,000. That may be enough for a simple, uncontested divorce or something, but is not nearly enough to cover my costs in this case. Also, I know that many of you, like the parable of the widow with the two coins that gave all she had, (insert groan here) were offering me money you really couldn’t afford to be without. I could not in good conscience accept money from people that are themselves struggling to make ends meet.

I would ask that you instead direct your money to a much more worthy cause: Shunned Father in Calgary is suing WTS. His case is very promising. I don’t know if he has completed setting up his Defence Fund, but I know that is where I am going to put my money.

Q:But if/when you win the case, you would be able to get your legal costs back by filing a claim for costs!

A: True, but I would still have to come up with the money up front. Do you have $100,000? I don’t. I suppose I could have 2nd mortgaged my home, or even sold it; sold my car, etc. But frankly, it likely still wouldn’t have been enough. And I fully expect that WTS would have used every trick in the book to drag things out as long as possible, knowing that my funds would run out long, long before theirs. It has taken 3.5 months just to reach a “quick, give it all away” settlement. How long would it have taken if I fought them? How much would it have cost?

Q:But their case is completely without merit! Their arguments in the Statement of Claim are not even internally consistent! You didn’t break any copyright laws! How can you let them get away with this B.S.??

A:

“We are not talking about ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, Arthur. We are talking about The Law” — the lawyer on the TV show WKRP in Cincinnati

I must say, I was very naive. I felt, and still feel, that my Watch Tower Quotes web site was fully in compliance with copyright law, and therefore I felt I was safe and would be held harmless. But I was naive to think that just because I was not breaking any laws, WTS would be unable to do anything. Obviously, I overestimated their decency; or perhaps, underestimated their ability to “frame mischief by law”. I felt that only radical groups like Scientology would stoop to the strong-arm tactics of a law suit. Obviously, I was wrong.

They have access to millions of dollars of cash and assets, and also have the convenience of in-house legal counsel (clothed, housed, and paid for through tax-exempt donations). IMO, WTS is 80% printing/publisher, and 20% law firm. Keep in mind, you don’t have to be a very good lawyer to harass someone by launching a suit. BTW, WTS retained a TOP Intellectual Property law firm. I think, amazingly, they actually sincerely expected to litigate this. Obviously they overestimated how deep “Satan’s” pockets are! I wonder if any of the tax-exempt “Katrina Relief” or “Asian Tsunami Relief” money ended up paying for lawyers, thanks to it being labelled only for the “Worldwide Work”? (I’m just speculating here.)

Q:“Quotes, I am a multi-millionaire, and I want to fund your fight.”

A: Where were you 3 months ago? And do you need a resident nerd to fix your computer?

OK, seriously now. Even if this offer were made, I would still be reluctant to continue to fight WTS. Just these past 3.5 months have taken a tremendous emotional toll on both me, and (more importantly) my lovely, supportive wife. She was never a JW, and doesn’t deserve to get abused by WTS persecution.

Also, this arrived when I was at a time in my life when I thought the WTS toll was entirely behind me. I was done with being an ex-JW, and was slowly becoming a regular person. I rarely updated my site, (having realized that cataloging interesting and significant WTS quotes is an ENDLESS job) and rarely posted here at JWD. Then, on Sept 8, I got punched in the stomach, when I was served.

“I tried to get out, but they kept pulling me back in!”

You have to pick your battles. And this isn’t a battle I want to fight. If you have access to large amounts of money, and want to make WTS look foolish to the world by having them silence their own words, well, be my guest. More power to you. But realize you are playing in their domain, by their rules.

Q:I downloaded a copy of your site using one of the two methods you had posted. I now want to put it on my own web space. Will that hurt you? Should I do this?

A: I will not offer an opinion on this. I have destroyed all copies of my site “known to and controlled by” me. If you have a site, I don’t want to know about it, and furthermore, I obviously have no control over it.

Q:But your site was such a valuable resource! It was unique in that it used primary documents, and refrained from editorializing. It was widely linked to as support for many other JW/WTS Education and Research web sites. What about that? What about the children! Did you ever stop to think about the children?

A: I am truly sorry that I have been forced to remove this resource due to Watch Tower’s persecution. But the world turned before my site came along, and I’m certain that it will continue to rotate now that “Quotes” is dark.

I have long felt that the most damaging, most effective tool against Watch Tower (or any other High Control Group) is to carefully and rationally study the group’s words and works. WTS thrives on information control, including controlling access to their own information — not too much, not too soon. Clearly my site struck a nerve with the old men that control WTS. Their Statement of Claim plainly stated that they feel that a collection of their own words can only have one purpose: to embarrass them. (BTW, I’ve never figured how they felt that, even if such a ridiculous claim were true, how it is relevant to a case of alleged copyright infringement! I didn’t see any “embarrassment” clauses in the Copyright laws.)

Perhaps one day another young Jedi Paduan, or old Jedi Master, will pick up the torch. The funny thing about squishing Cockroaches is they seem to be able to reproduce faster than you can squish them. You don’t have to worry about the one you just squished, you have to worry about the 10,000 offspring hatching under the cupboard.

Finally, since I am certain that my posts here are monitored to ensure my ongoing compliance with the terms of the Settlement Agreement, I would like to offer the following lyrics, in a gesture of, frankly, legitimate Copyright Violation. You know, if you’re going to do the time, you might as well do the crime.

Of course I’ve heard this song many times before, but when I heard it a couple of days ago, I immediately thought of the following people, and it is to these people I

would like to dedicate this little ditty:

Ken Little (President of WTS Canada, and signatory to the Settlement Agreement)
Glen How, O.C., Q.C., L.S.M., (and personal friend of my mother since her first days in Canada)
John Burns, LL.B.
David Gnam, CGA, LL.B. (and as the CGA, likely the only person who REALLY knows how much money they have, at least in Canada)
Shane H. Brady, LL.B. (and CBBE: Cinnamon Bun Baker Extraordinaire!)
…and all the other (Ken) Little people, the cleaners, the drywallers, the plumbers, the floor refinishers, order desk clerks, and the rest of the Nowhere Men who become pseudo-important — albeit dysfunctional — elders within the confines of The Watch Tower Society… men that fight to protect their little fiefdom with all the sincerity of a September 11th Terrorist.

He’s a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.

Doesn’t have a point of view,
Knows not where he’s going to,
Isn’t he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere man, please listen,
You don’t know what you’re missing,
Nowhere man, the world is at your command.

He’s as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,
Nowhere man can you see me at all?

Nowhere man, don’t worry,
Take your time, don’t hurry,
Leave it all ’till somebody else
Lends you a hand.

Doesn’t have a point of view,
Knows not where he’s going to,
Isn’t he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere man, please listen,
You don’t know what you’re missing,
Nowhere man, the world is at your command.

He’s a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.

~Quotes, of the “Once I Had A Web Site, Made it Run On Time… Brother, Can You Spare A Dime?” class

Originally posted on jehovahs-witness.com

75 Comments Leave a comment »

Pages: «4[3]2 1 » (Show All)

Comment by made (Comment ID: 1868)

This website might be next, because of breaking copyright laws by copying Quotes website. Obey the law and you wouldn’t be shut down, that’s what happen to Quotes website.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 8, 2006 at 11:51 pm
Comment by James NON-JW (Comment ID: 1885)

If a website was a resource for encyclopedias, journals, periodicals, magazine articles, dictionaries, and was not only quoted verbatim, they were all written/compiled by other people or organizations, would that be wrong?
The truth is that the WTS needs to conceal & hide their past writings, unless they have edited them to reflect a more supportive standpoint. What you should be more concerned with however, is the fact that you & other fellow JW’s need to constantly find justification for the WTS transgressions. Even if the WTS released a similar website, odds are they will have edited all their past falsehoods & naivety.

Interestingly enough, I had a conversation with a JW the other day and the pedophile issue arose (they started it by discussing the Catholic pedophile dilemma in one of their pamphlets). I must admit that I was taken aback at first, then realized this is their normal behavior to support the org. first and think later, if at all. It’s absurd to hear them run down another religion and then try to justify the same problem existing within their own structure, all in the same conversation.
It is almost psychotic, and yet somewhat amusing for those of us who are used to this.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 9, 2006 at 3:55 am

Comment by kash (Comment ID: 1796)

WebArchive

Do ya think they have enough money to sue Google into taking down the archive of your site?

I full well understand that you can’t comment on this, but if anyone is looking to research what quotes so offended cult leaders go to the above link.

And by all means, copy the archive and set up your own sites!

Kash.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 3, 2006 at 7:44 am
Comment by James NON-JW (Comment ID: 1856)

Google won’t be afraid of a clown operation like the WTS. Besides, it is only one of 100’s of search engines, all capable of finding the same info.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 8, 2006 at 7:49 pm

Comment by Chad (Comment ID: 1760)

The site was mirrored and republished by others. It is not dead and a Google search will quickly turn up the clones. So, all the Org. managed to do was spread the word and publicise it. Thanks WTBTS!

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 1, 2006 at 9:05 am
Comment by Brad (Comment ID: 1762)

They are actually published on this site (the one you are visiting right now): Watchtower Quotes

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 1, 2006 at 11:11 am

Comment by Trudy (Comment ID: 1691)

Peter Mosier I applaud you! And, I am so sorry for all that you have had to go through. You are a wonderful human being and one of God’s shining stars.

Your efforts will not be in vein and the work WILL GO ON and is going on despite this Evil Satanic Cult.

The WBTS claims their information is FREE; apparently, they do not know the meaning of the word FREE. They want the WORD spread, that is exactly what I and so many others will do, spread their own WORDS.

You won and they lost!

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 27, 2006 at 5:00 am

Pingback by GagWatch » Jehovah’s Witnesses censor Jehovah’s Witness(Comment ID: 1544)

[…] The Watchtower Information Service has a more detailed statement from Mr Mosier as well as a link to the Settlement Areement. Posted by Paul in Canada (January 16, 2006 at 11:37 pm) […]

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 17, 2006 at 12:38 am

Comment by Walter (Comment ID: 1510)

I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness and attended all weekly meetings for over 25 years and just before I was getting ready to be baptized, I decided to study the history of the Watchtower. Without your (former) site, I would’ve never been able to complete such a thorough research.

I am devastated, shocked and outraged. I have no doubt that God will destroy this evil organization sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately, my whole family including parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews, grandparents etc are Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I’ve made copies of most of the quotes and last week I mailed them to the Watchtower with many of my own questions. I showed my parents my research and when they saw that it’s not apostate material but rather quotes from watchtower publications, they were lost for words. They are intelligent and rational people but it seems that when it comes to religion they are not rational.

They know that I’ve sent the quotes with questions to the watchtower and they are sure that the Watchtower will be able to give a satisfactory explanation. I really doubt that the Watchtower will ever reply (I mean, how can they?) but if they do I’ll be able to defend myself.

Partly because of your work, my family and I have a good chance to freeing ourselves from this organization.

I respect you profoundly for you courage and kindness and I thank you.

Walter

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 14, 2006 at 11:53 am
Comment by James NON-JW (Comment ID: 1521)

Walter, it is good to hear from another JW who has woken up & realized the stupidity of the WTS. I used to be involved, however after studying their true history, the false prophecy & hypocrisy, I can truly say that it feels good to experience freedom.

Take care,
James

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 15, 2006 at 6:22 am

Comment by John(Comment ID: 1781)

Walter,

Your account is an inspiration to others. The research you did took courage and sincerity.

“But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any Good News other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.” - Gal 1:8

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 2, 2006 at 5:57 pm
Comment by Walter (Comment ID: 1846)

Thank you John and James. I appreciate your words. I love the above bible text and I do believe that the most powerful book on earth, the bible, is also the book that will help in stopping these presumptuous, evil, false prophets that God does hate as stated in the bible at Proverbs 5: 16-19.

I’m very angry at these people for conning me and my family and millions of others for so long, but I find it comforting when I read Proverbs 1: 22-33, where God says: I shall laugh at your own disaster, I shall mock when what you fear comes, when what you fear comes just like a storm, and your own disaster gets here like a storm wind, when distress and hard times come upon you. At that time they will keep calling me, but I shall not answer; they will keep looking for me, but they will not find me, for the reason that they hated knowledge, and the fear of God they did not choose. They did not consent to my counsel; they disrespected all my reproof. So they will eat from the fruitage of their way, and they will be glutted with their own counsels.

Again, thank you.

Walter

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 8, 2006 at 7:31 am
Comment by James NON-JW (Comment ID: 1947)

Walter hang in there, I know exactly what it is like as well. I have family in this religion that blindly & fanatically hold onto ideologies that are totally ridiculous & baseless. Even with evidence of this lunacy from their own literature, they just clam up & play dumb. I have seen time & time again, those who post comments here with an attitude of superiority, just because of their so-called ‘truth’. It’s funny how many of them can be vindictive & mean, without compassion, yet as soon as you disagree or seek to have a discussion regarding their faith, they immediately state you’re an apostate & this shuts down their brain to any level of reasoning. There is no doubt in my mind that they are brainwashed, after all why would you need to go to so many meetings a week, be forced to perform all the so-called Christian duties, etc? The WTS is merely controlling them and freedom of thought or individuality is non-existant with most of JW’s.
Take care and stay in touch,
James

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 10, 2006 at 2:30 pm

Comment by Lyle (Comment ID: 1468)

An individual can’t beat a huge corporate entity like WT without lots & lots of pain. That’s one of the reasons that corporations exist.

I applaud your efforts and agree with your wisdom to back off. WTS can destroy lives of its members, but will definitely attempt to erradicate its opposers. Call them evil if you will, but you must admit that they have a model that is difficult to beat.

However, they are starting to erode from the inside. Many of the current elders, MS, Pioneers, etc. are leading double lives by visiting contraband sites and reading anti-WT materials.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 11, 2006 at 10:46 pm
Comment by D111115 (Comment ID: 90849)

I wonder how many of the elders are looking on these sites to see how many of their own congregations are posting on them. They have the duty to keep the congregation “clean”, and this could include looking on these sites for posts that could come from their own. What I hope is that they will have to read so many of them that their eyes will be opened, and they will all turn apostate themselves. And if the hounders all turn apostate, the hounder-hounders will have to take their positions. And if they start looking for apostates, they themselves will be next. And so on up the line. Good for any who do turn apostate.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on December 3, 2006 at 6:28 pm

Comment by Freddie Franz(Comment ID: 1467)

While looking down on you folks, it brings a tear to my eye to see you all fighting against my people. In time, you will see that my words hold true.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 11, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Comment by James NON-JW (Comment ID: 1635)

You see, he always did think he was a god!? Hey loser, get off the forum.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 22, 2006 at 10:30 pm

Comment by Chad (Comment ID: 1761)

Which words Fred Franz? That 1975 marked the end of 6000 years since the creation of man and ‘hint, hint’ will lead to Armaggeddon? The only way you can make those words hold true is if you can go back in time!!

Reply to this Comment » Posted on February 1, 2006 at 9:22 am

Comment by JF Rutherford (Comment ID: 22967)

That’s right, Fred–you tell ‘em. But your direction is wrong. We’re looking North, not South. I think the smoke has confused you, poor little deluded guy…

Reply to this Comment » Posted on July 5, 2006 at 8:05 am

Comment by D111115 (Comment ID: 90859)

I think you need to pay attention to your nephew Raymond. He was the one that actually repented from his sins and woke up. That was one mighty good book he wrote–Crisis of Conscience. Read it. You will be glad you did. If you dismiss it, you will regret it.

Reply to this Comment » Posted on December 3, 2006 at 6:31 pm

Pingback by Now open: Watchtower Quotes | Jehovah’s Witnesses: Watchtower Information Service(Comment ID: 1413)

[…] I have added the section Watchtower Quotes to this website. These quotes were originally published on quotes.watchtower.ca; the website that has been shut down by the Watchtower Society. […]

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 8, 2006 at 3:29 pm

Comment by Simon(Comment ID: 1406)

Thank you for all your hard work Peter. The website was an invaluable resource and helped me a great deal when talking to a local Elder. The conversation is still ongoing and he is digging deeper into Watchtower history thanks to the quotes from your site.

I hope that the events of the last few months will not leave a lasting scar and that normality will return soon. There are many of us outthere who are talking to, challenging and loving Jehovah’s Witnesses, presenting the truth and taking the long journey of leading them out indoctrination into free thinkers.

You have been an inspiration and the Watchtower has to get tighter control on its members in order to maintain converts.

Many Blessings - Simon

Reply to this Comment » Posted on January 8, 2006 at 1:08 am

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avidbiblereader

Thanks, I will look these up in my spare time, getting ready to go golfing

abr

Gill

Yes! I'm sure they do.

They have good reason to be totally terrified of this site as well.

When a JW is DF'd, he/she loses contact with all their friends. In the past they were totally isolated. Now they can just get on the internet, talk to fellow ex JWs and before you know it, they begin their walk to freedom!

The WTBTS has to monitor its real and only enemy, Freedom of Speech and expression!

All JWs who 'choose' to be free, can be. All they have to do is get on line and before you know it, the chains are broken.

Be afraid WTBTS!!!

fullofdoubtnow

I hope they do.

There are quite a few currently active jws on this site who, unknown to their elders, are mentally out of the organisation, just attending for the sake of their families. Reading the views of those people, which represent what they truly feel about being jws, should give the wts an idea of how much trouble the org is really in, and how little they can do to improve things.

jgnat

I'd believe the WTBTS monitors this site for trends.

I think there is only moderate interest in individuals. Unless of course, a fellow congregation member rats you out.

mouthy

A bus load of us used to Picket Brooklyn Bethel every year .... One year as I was walking out of site of the WT. A Brother??? came out of the building of course I ran beside him, telling him a few truths about "Mother" & he said """" I know we read you on the internet" so I guess they do.....

Does the Society monitor and read this site

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