several families maybe.
Watchtower condones murder - but make sure you disfellowship for smoking!
by AK - Jeff 39 Replies latest jw friends
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AK - Jeff
As noted, the letter is in public domain now, as it has been for several years I believe. As to whether anyone was able to contact law enforcement with the specific information, I have no idea.
This is just a rigid proof of the legalism that pervades this religion. A confessed murderer can gain sanctuary within the hidden confidentiality of the elder body, yet one who engages in private sexual love with his/her mate can be 'convicted' and 'executed' as a sinner of grand scale, for not rigorously adhering to the ever-changing definition of 'porneia'.
Jeff
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carla
I showed this to my jw and a guy at the hell (ms or elder?) anyway, they say it is a made up letter by you evil apostates. Of course. I said the elders should be able to get more info on it but they declined.
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choosing life
How did you get this letter? I just can't hardly believe even the Watchtower would do this. But then, I still find it unbelievable that they go to court against poor children who have been molested and that has been proven beyond a doubt. Also they protect elders from any discipline if they just wait long enough to reveal it.
But murder! Surely they can get into trouble for not turning that information over to authorities. These cases are never really closed. Doesn't that make them accomplices to the crime if they know, but don't tell?
And God forbid that he smoked a joint, now that is really unforgivable and needs to be investigated.
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AK - Jeff
I showed this to my jw and a guy at the hell (ms or elder?) anyway, they say it is a made up letter by you evil apostates. Of course. I said the elders should be able to get more info on it but they declined.
There is ref codes on the letter that the society could use to identify it if they wish I suppose. Of course they don't wish, do they? Tell this young man [the one who said it was made up] to please prove that it is made up. You might mention that it has resided on the SL website for many years, and that the organization knows it is there, has never denied it, never sued to have it removed, as they surely would if it was made up. Ask him if this letter is more made up than the thousands of prophecies the WTS has printed. If I [or any apostates made this letter up by lying] then our lies are still outnumbered by theirs 1000:1 Same ol'e same ole' ' All apostates do is lie. All the society does is good' nonsense. Jeff
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AK - Jeff
How did you get this letter?
Posted on www.Silentlambs.org website as referenced above. Bill used it as evidence that the organization uses clergy confidentiality as defense to protect pedo's I think.
Follow the link above, there may be more documentation on the reasons he has it posted I am not sure anymore, as it has been a long time since I revisited this portion of his site.
Jeff
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Justitia Themis
LOTS of rationalization/justification in this QFR.
*w789/15pp.30-31QuestionsFromReaders***
Questions
FromReaders?
IamteachingtheBibletoawomanwhorecentlyconfidedinmethatsheusedtoshoplift.Mustshetrytorestoreallthatshestole,orevengiveherselfuptothepolice,beforeshewillqualifytobecomeabaptizedChristian?Persons in such situations have to resolve for themselves, in accord with their conscience, whether to take either of those two steps before baptism.
The Scriptures assure us that it is God’s will "that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth." To that end God sent his Son as a corresponding ransom. (1 Tim. 2:4-6) The cleansing merit of Jesus’ blood is available to persons who led extremely wicked lives, or were guilty of grave sins, before they learned the truth of the Bible, repented and turned around.
For instance, the fact that the Jewish community of Jerusalem in 33 C.E. supported their religious leaders in demanding Jesus’ death did not mean that they could never become Christians. On the day of Pentecost the apostle Peter told many of them: "Let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whomyouimpaled." Yes, they bore at least some guilt for that murder. Cut to the heart, they asked: ‘What shall we do?" Peter replied: "Repent, and let each one of you be baptized."—Acts 2:36-38.
It is similar with Saul, who ‘breathed threats and murder’ against Christians, and who witnessed and approved the killing of Stephen. (Acts 7:58; 8:1; 9:1; 22:20) Saul, more commonly known as Paul, later admitted: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost. Nevertheless, . . . I was shown mercy."—1 Tim. 1:15, 16.
It might be asked, however, whether a person must try to undo the crimes or sins that he was guilty of before accepting Christianity.
What could come to mind is the fact that under the Mosaic law restitution and compensation were required in cases of stealing. For example, if an Israelite stole a bull and was caught with it, he had to return it, as well as another bull to compensate the owner for the loss of his bull’s services.—Ex. 22:1, 3-9.
Or reference might be made to Luke’s account about Zacchaeus, a chief tax collector at Jericho, who evidently had used questionable practices in extracting money, becoming rich in the process. Upon receiving favorable attention from Jesus, Zacchaeus said: "Whatever I extorted from anyone by false accusation I am restoring fourfold." Jesus approved of this sincere response that manifested faith and repentance, telling him: "This day salvation has come to this house. . . . For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost." (Luke 19:1-10) Apparently Zacchaeus could calculate from the tax records just what was owing, and he had the funds with which to repay. Even if the government did not charge him with extortion, his conscience moved him to try to repay what he had extorted.
It is noteworthy, though, that the law in Exodus 22:1, 3b-9 was given to Israelites in a dedicated relationship with God. And Zacchaeus was already a "son of Abraham" who should have been committed to following the high standards of the Bible; his repayment was an evidence of repentance over having done otherwise. But what of a person who is just learning of God’s standards and who beforehand had sinned or shared in crime?
The fact is that humans now are not Scripturally obliged to follow the Mosaic law, including Exodus 22:1, 3b-9. (Rom. 6:14) And the Christian Greek Scriptures do not indicate that God requires a person to undo all his past sins or crimes before he can be baptized.
This is illustrated in the case of Onesimus, mentioned in the Bible book of Philemon. He had been a slave in Colossae, but he fled. That was a criminal offense, making him a runaway slave (Latin, fugitivus). Also, some feel that Onesimus may have robbed his master so as to be able to flee to distant Italy. In Rome he came into association with the apostle Paul and became a baptized Christian. Paul did not demand that before Onesimus could get baptized he had to turn himself over to the authorities for criminal punishment, nor did he even require Onesimus to go back to his slave owner first, though sometime after Onesimus became a Christian Paul urged him to return, and he was willing to go.
Similarly, a person who accepts the Bible’s message today may have formerly committed some crime, even being wanted for it, being a fugitive. The Bible shows that he must ‘repent and turn around so as to get his sins blotted out.’ (Acts 3:19) That obviously means that he must absolutely abandon his former sinful, criminal course. Peter wrote to Christians: "Let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a busybody in other people’s matters."—1 Pet. 4:15.
The person himself must determine whether he will try, to the extent that he can, to pay back those from whom he has stolen goods or money. Love of neighbor points in this direction. (Matt. 22:39; 7:12) In many past cases like this, owning up to one’s debts, as it were, has provided a fine witness as to the good effect that true religion can have.
However, in some instances the guilty individual does not know all the places or persons from whom he has stolen. Or the crime may be something that he has no way of reversing. He might have caused someone’s death. Conscience-stricken though he be, he cannot bring that life back—only Jehovah can. (John 5:28, 29) But even though he cannot reverse the past, he should throw himself on God’s mercy and seek forgiveness based on Jesus’ sacrifice. The Bible pointedly tells us that this is what thieves and extortioners did in the first century; they were ‘washed clean, sanctified and declared righteous in the name of Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.’—1 Cor. 6:9, 10; 1 Pet. 4:1-4.
It must be acknowledged that if someone with a criminal past who accepts Christianity does not get the matter legally straightened out before baptism, his past might later become public knowledge; he might even be apprehended and imprisoned. That development, besides giving him a bad public reputation, might seem to reflect unfavorably on the Christian congregation. But Jesus was criticized for eating with and accepting sinners and tax collectors to be his disciples. His response to that was that he came to save sinners; he came to heal the sick, not the healthy.—Matt. 9:10-13.
Any fair, thoughtful person can see the high moral standards of those in the Christian congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. This outstanding morality, which has been publicly praised by outsiders, is not because all of these who are now Christians were always honest and principled. It is, rather, proof of the changes that can be made when persons of all backgrounds work to conform their lives to the morality taught in God’s Word. This is just as historian Dr. John Lord wrote about the early Christians:
"The true triumphs of Christianity were seen in making good men of those who professed her doctrines, rather than changing outwardly popular institutions, or government, or laws, or even elevating the great mass of unbelievers. . . . We have testimony to their blameless lives, to their irreproachable morals, to their good citizenship . . . "—TheOldRomanWorld, pp. 551, 578.
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frozen one
If I read the third paragraph correctly, the society doesn't mind having a fugitive in a congregation as long as the fugitive isn't permitted to handle microphones at the watchtower study. Or is the letter refering to other "extra privileges of service?"
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juni
Another reason to leave this organization who encourages breaking Caesar's law.
They are coercing this BOEs to harbor a criminal. They make that clear by how they worded their letter. As someone else said here, if the man truly is a "Christian" and his baptism means something to him then he would turn himself in and set things right even if that meant being incarcerated.
Juni
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FreedomFrog
Is there ANYWAY that I can prove the society did infact send this? This may be an eye opener for my family but I know one argument they would use...the would say that this is NOT from the Watchtower, that the "apostates" created this just to turn people away. If I could have proof they did in fact send this on hand...this could be the ticket.