I think I vomited somewhere during that. So now the elders counsel is like the soothing oils in James 5? Common , I read that and it looks to me that the belief was that people were getting physically sick because of sin and the oil is really oil not advice or direction. My belief is that christians believed in the first century that they would either die as martyrs or the kingdom would come , there was not supposed to be physical ailments or dying of old age. Then there's the part about df'd ones not being able to talk to each other . Now that's completely nuts . The first church did practice a form of dfing even tho the word disfellowship is not used but they did remove people , the bible is very clear on that one and they did shun people . Things were a bit different tho since they did sell all they owned to join the religion and shared according to their daily needs so for someone to sin and show unrepentance could not be tolerated . I think there is a bit of a difference in following the apostles writings and an organization that is constantly changing it's dogma and doctrine.
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-31-06 WT Study (Discipline)
by blondie 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
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garybuss
Entertaining article. It says don't leave the marks out to rot, then it says to leave the marks out to rot. Very interesting journalism style. It's like two different people holding two different opinions wrote the article. A typical Santa Clause is gonna know if you been bad or good approach.
I remember going to meetings and they talked about Jesus, and the types and the anit-types and the typical and the atypical. I'd much rather be going now. Every week is another tow the mark article all in plain language. They are almost forgetting to toss in the proof texts.
These guys have PROBLEMS! They've all but forgotten about religion and the interpretation of Bible text. Now they have a tight little loop of enticement and compliance topics. The end is near, go in service, go to meetings, pet a loin in paradise, don't sin, beware the Internet (and apostates), shuffle, cut, repeat.
Every other topic is designed to establish the foundation concept that the Society is God's appointed channel. They say the printing business is directed by ghosts but we don't hear much about the ghosts or what exactly they're directing or exactly how they're doing the ghost directing. Maybe it's ghost nap time.
I can't remember one recent example of something actually accomplished by ghost power alone. I'd actually think that Phil Brumley might be wearing the ghost hat. -
garybuss
Welcome Robert3x2!
I remember Jan thru March 2003 the elders were directed to contact your local castaway. They took the opportunity to clean out their files and in some areas I'm told it turned into a purge. They'd contact the mark and then they'd ask if the mark believed the corporation was God's channel, and if the mark said yes, they'd tell the mark to go to meetings. If the mark didn't comply, the elders would disfellowship em and shun em. If the mark said no, they'd announce em as disassociated and shun em. -
A Paduan
As usual I don't get far reading this 'stuff' - they really do need English lessons - high school and all that
"Discipline" refers to chastisement, correction, instruction, and education.
well....disciplining (someone else) may be associated with those things
from the Latin.... disciplina..... is "instruction given to a disciple,"
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They seem to get the "instruction" (for disciples) bit rather confused with the "chastising and correction"
..............and who are these new 'disciples' emulating anyway ?
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bobld
Very good analysis of wt.
Solomon.Do as I say not as I do.GB..do as we say not as we do.Holy Spirit must of left GB for their secret sins, ie. UN and other sins which we can't even fathom.Can you just imagine the comments at tomorrows study.YUCK,YUCK
bobld
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anakolouthos
Spot-on review as always, Blondie. Thank you for the time you put into this every week. You bring out some great points.
This article makes me so sick. I can't imagine how it must feel for someone still mentally in to sit through this & think it's coming from God. What a bunch of crap!
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truthsetsonefree
I wonder why they don't comment on 2 Corinthians 8:6 which says: "This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man." Majority means that not EVERYONE would have had to shun him.
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betterdaze
Thank you, Blondie.
This time there is not even ONE mention of Jesus except for your comments! Where he usually gets at least a passing mention, this time he's not even in the picture. It's Jehovah —> the organization —> the sinners, the org displacing and replacing Jesus.
How blatant their idolatrous self-worship has become. If/when Jesus does return, he's gonna be mighty pissed at these presumptuous men. Reminds me of Hebrews 6:4-6
"For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame."
The upside of this series of recent articles is that hapless householders/studies who read them will likely run like hell. "Scary cult" is written all over it.
(Maybe vomit first, then run.)
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darth frosty
Cause thats just what the society is batty. I am about to go on a rant here forgive me if I get to curt. I love the way they take One frigging example of so called disfellowshipping and run with that crap for 20 + paragraphs. Any true bible historian will tell you that paul wrote those words and immediatly tried to recant them. Why cause he realised it was presumptious on his part to make such a declaration. For proof of this all you need to do is consider the times he lived in and the timeline for the 2 writings.
He wrote 1st corrinthians and made the outlandish statement, within 6 months of that letter leaving his hands the corinthians had another one that rescinded the mans disfellowshiping. Now this was the mid 1st century, there was no great mail system, hell there wasn't even a pony express. If you sent a letter you knew it would take a month or so to get to its destination. So, for example, paul send the letter on jan 1st. The corinthians get it on feb 1st. They proceed to shun my man on pauls advice and it goes wrong. By the middle of march word reaches paul, that his words are causing a division in the congo. Take 2 Corinthians 8:6 which says: "This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man." As Truthsetsonefree pointed out this scripture shows that not all complied, thus where the division came in. Paul does not want the congo divided so he says 'so that they will not be overreached by satan accept him.'
Pauls main goal was to keep the congo intact and prosperous. Anything that would cause division he nipped in the bud. Look at the circumcision issue, it threatened to divide the congo and hinder growth, so they met and came to a mutual conclusion. In both of those crisis the oldermen or Governing body as the WTB$ likes to say, made a compromise to protect the growth of the young christian congregation. They were willing to sacrifice some outmoded ideas and doctrines in order for the congo to grow and prosper.
Sadly the WTB$ doesn't really care about true growth and prosperity for the R&F, just themselves. They thrive on division as their proof that they are gods chosen channel. By disfellowshiping people it keeps the R&F in line. But in the immortal words of princess leah (it always comes back to star wars) The tighter their grip the more people slip through there fingers.
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BluesBrother
We were always taught to ask ourselves "What are the Society trying to tell us with this article?" , well this one and last week only tell me one thing - they are having problems and the r & f need to be told to stay in line or get out . This is the killer giveaway paragraph
10) Some who have sinned might reason: `If I tell anyone about my sin, I may have to answer embarrassing questions and may be disfellowshipped. But if I keep quiet, that can be avoided and nobody in the congregation will ever know.' Such thinking fails to take some important factors into account. What are these?
Oh yes, there must be a lot of "secret sin" about these days. I get that impression too when I get to a Circuit Assembly and hear a talk on the 'needs of the Circuit' - As Bob Dylan once said, "Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command, the times they are a changin'"
Some thoughts on the study :
P1) "Your heavenly Father disciplines you" , Oh really? Or is it the WTS or just the BOE? They take Gods authority for themselves - Pharisees!
13) Jehovah will not bless anyone who hides gross sin and tries to stay in the clean Christian congregation. (James 4:6) So if you have fallen into sin and want to do what is right, do not hesitate to make an honest confession. Otherwise, you will have a guilty conscience, especially when you read or hear counsel regarding such serious matters. What if Jehovah were to withdraw his spirit from you, as he did in the case of King Saul? (1 Samuel 16:14) With God's spirit removed, you could fall into even more serious sin.
What is meant by "Having Gods spirit removed"? I never felt that I had it.
16) Jehovah fed his figurative sheep, made them lie down in security, and searched for the lost ones. Similarly, Christian shepherds see to it that God's flock is spiritually wellfed and secure. The elders search for sheep who wander away from the congregation. Just as God `bandaged the broken one,' over-seers "bandage" sheep wounded by someone's words or by their own actions. And as God `strengthened the ailing one,' the elders help those who have become spiritually sick, possibly because of personal wrongdoing.
Joke , surely! The elders around here won't lift a finger .
21) Elders can provide spiritual help in various ways. For instance, suppose a brother who in the past had a drinking problem drank too much once or twice when home alone. Or perhaps one who long ago abandoned the use of tobacco smoked privately a time or two in a moment of weakness. Although he has prayed and believes that God has forgiven him, he should seek the help of an elder so that such a sin does not become habitual. An elder or two might handle the situation. However, the elder(s) would inform the presiding overseer, as there may be other factors involved.
Surely "once or twice", makes it a practice of sin? In my day we would have given it the full treatment. Perhaps we were "hard and unforgiving", who knows?
All in all, the d/f arrangement is going strong, IF they can catch them. The article seems to be appealing to a wrongdoers conscience to confess and be assured of loving treatment - Heaven help 'em!