by Lady Liberty 184 Replies latest jw friends
Couldn't you just put up one of those big electric signs in your yard and state that so and so egged our car and killed our frosty man. They are members of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Our something like the killers of our frosty snow man has been caught. They were members of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in celebrating Christmas. This attack was not random. It occurred because we rejected the religion.
seven006: If the story does come out (and I think it will and should) the fact that LL and her husband made the offer to keep her thoughts within it’s own environment of her on going situation, and it was "turned down" will give the age old "judge for yourself" thought people have when a "no comment" answer is given in one of those investigative, whistle blower, shows so many see on TV, like 60 minutes, Dateline or what ever. The viewers mind instantly says "guilty, they are trying to hide something"
This type of "offer" could also be viewed by the JWs as "blackmail". The likely resulting rumor would be something to the tune of, "Look at those awful apostates. They tried to blackmail the elders by threatening to take the brothers to court if they didn't let them spread their spiritual poison at the Kingdom Hall! See what happens when you leave Jehovah? Aren't the elders wonderful for protecting us? Maybe Jehovah was using the incident to teach them a lesson - they should have known better than to be celebrating Christmas anyway." Not to mention that the congregation members could get aggressive - whether verbally at this hosted "meeting" or in more informal ways which involve more property damage and intimidation "offline".
Lady Liberty: Mind you we felt he was sincere...
I'm sure he was... sincerely sorry he got caught, sincerely unhappy with standing on your porch, sincerely ticked-off that he was impelled to make the appearance of an apology. If he had truly been sincere, his conscience would have moved him to come forward sooner and to offer restitution for any damage out of his own pocket.
Qcmbr: Of course you could show the better example and teach by forgiving....
Lashing out - even while justified will not heal your hurt - revenge however leaglly correct never ever ends well and the corrective effects of punishment here will not teach a lesson greater than their obvious humiliation has already done. ..
This "better example" would only be an "example" if (1) a number of people knew about the incident and (2) those people knew what Lady Liberty's seeming inaction meant, and (3) they could appreciate that behavior. Likely even if the entire circuit knew, they could not appreciate the depth of hurt of this action and what "forgiveness" would really mean. (After all, she's "only" an "apostate" - many JWs seem to think "apostates" have no real feelings.)
Besides, "revenge" [1: to avenge usually by retaliating in kind or degree - 2: to inflict injury in return for] doesn't fit the act of reporting a wrong on behalf of "justice" [1 a: the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments c: the administration of law; especially: the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity]
The advocacy of "forgiveness" in this case seems a euphemism for "letting it slide."
He may have even had a sincere hangover. The whole incident sounds like a case of Coors to me.
Nina
Any action that does not cause them public humiliation or hit them in the pocket is a waste of time with these worthless lumps of human gristle.
If you express forgiveness, they will say Jehovah was protecting His Name, and only made you do it (whereas you are actually full of hatred and vengeance) "Isn't our God powerful?" they will say.
If you do nothing they will despise you for a piece of worthless bird food and regret not saving the Angels the effort of frying you at Armageddy.
There are too many examples of such behavior occurring on this board.
Who will be the first to say "NO" it has to stop.
Press charges.
HB
snowcanuk said: when i read your ongoing saga I thought the best punishment would be to ask them to go out and purchase a brand new "frosty"... they did in fact tear his frosty head off, no?....can you imagine their horror of being 'caught' by fellow dubs? Surely there must be some christmas stuff still on sale in some stores....i just think it would be priceless to have them buy something that they think is so "evil". ahh....but thats me.....i think, and reading here all wont agree with me, that reporting it as a hate crime will cause bad relations with your neighbours and as much as i dont think too highly of my neighbours i would try to keep the peace if i can.....turn the other cheek..be a forgiving neighbour, let the elders deal with them in whatever way they see fit (eyes rolling), and make them buy you a new FROSTY!!
Sorry, I don't wish to hijack this thread but:
I know people usually decorate for Christmas with various ornaments such as 'Frosty', but what does 'Frosty' really have to do with Christmas. After being a JW for 40+ years, I don't know what is wrong with a SNOWMAN - even by JW excessive rules?
I've used the same reasoning with various winter songs Ie: 'Jingle Bells'. In the past, a Witness was surprised that I knew the words to this song being a Christmas song. I asked him what it had to do with Christmas as it had only to do with riding in a Sleigh in winter. He thought for a moment & realized that I was right. I'm sure he went back to believing it was a Christmas song right after though.
Incognito
#1) Contact the local police, state/county prosecutor (to charge state crimes), FBI and federal prosecutor (to charge federal crimes). Press criminal charges....tresspass, vandelism, conspiracy, hate crimes, and, perhaps, "terroristic" threats. If found guilty, the "grown men" will be put in jail, community service, and/or pay fines to the government, etc. However, the grown men may be "let off" as it's probably their first crime. I just want to let you know that that is a possibility, but do not be detered from filing a local police and FBI complaint because of this "possibility". You have to get this incidence on record, as other incidents are more likely to follow if you do not.
I have found that each prosecutor has a mind of his/her own, and is not intimidated by the mob, gangs, religious headquarters, etc. I do not think the Watchtower Society will want to put its lawyers on this case, and will overtly disown these grown male bastards. It's bad press, overall, for the Society to be associated with "petty" type crimes. The Watchtower Society has spent too much money & time telling the average dub to "leave it to Jah and not take things into thier own hands", precisely for this reason. The Society likes to present a clean, law abiding, image, and blame the local members actions as isolated incidents it had no part of.
#2) Contact local attorneys, and proceed to sue each of these "grown men" in a civil court. A good attorney will think of multiple claims, such as tresspass, emotional distress, etc. The attorney may take the case on a contingency basis (meaning you will not have to put any money up front). If you win, you'll get MONEY. A builder and a plumber sound like some deep pockets!
Remember, OJ was found "not guilty" in a criminal court (option #1) but guilty in a civil court (option #2), and had to pay the families MONEY. It's easier to find someone guilty in a civil court, than a criminal court. But, I'd go for both as it sounds like you have good evidence and a neighbor willing to testify.
Skeeter
I wish that you could get a copy of the guys doing this dirty deed and put on YouTube.
It was more than just vandalism, it was personal...."Caesar's things to Caesar,,,,"> It is against the law to behave like that. & there were two witnesses . Show them you also must abide by the Law.
ngenuous, Nothing is going to get some die hard JW’s to see or understand anything outside of what they have been programmed and told to see or understand. So what they may think or say is irrelevant in the realm of reality……………………………………………………….An exJW could run into a burning kingdom hall to save some lives and the die hard JW’s would find something to twist that act into something that is going to make it look bad and reinforce their thoughtless thinking and protect their incredible level of insecurity. That’s just the way their mind has been programmed to work and that’s good enough for them……………………………………………………………………………………………..Their whole existence is based on blackmail mentality. It’s all they understand. Do exactly what their leaders say and never question it or you will suffer their consequences……………………………………………………………………………….I never mention taking legal action. I think that would be pretty much a waste of time. I just said to get the story out. The true story will do more then a five year court case that the watchtower lawyers will keep appealing until they get what they want. Money wins court cases, not necessarily truth or justice. They know that…….besides, to take a misdemeanor crime to court is useless no matter whether you call it a hate or a love crime. Just to prove it is a hate crime would also take a lot of time…………………………………………………………………………………………..The story and public opinion is what is important. The WT lawyers and their public relations department spend a lot of time and money trying to hide their bullshit and keep their innocent god following persuade intact……………………………………………………………………………………………….Here you have a religion that justifies hating Christmas and ex-members who have done nothing wrong except not agree with all of their teachings and some of their brain dead followers act out what they have been taught. Just let them wiggle out of that concept in the eyes of the public that they hide from……………………………………..It’ may be just a small story but so is the one about a talking snake telling a naked lady to eat a piece of fruit and the whole world being screwed up because of it. Not everyone needs to believe it, just know it. Some small stories have a big impact………………………………………………………………………………………………………Dave
It is up to the DA's office if charges are brought against them. If they decide to pursue the case then they will need your testimony BUT again it's not your decision, it's the DA's.
The worst vice is advice so I have nothing to add in that regard. Good luck with whatever happens and please keep posting cause I am sure enjoying your story!
