This statement was made to me and I want to refute it with verifiable information on other denominations. Anyone with ideas?
PROVE ME WRONG! JW's were the only religion to oppose Hitler
by truthsearcher 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
candidlynuts
i'm pretty sure the Jew's opposed him!
-
candidlynuts
in wikipedia under nazism and religion there is this info..
Still, many Protestant organizations or denominations were solidly opposed to Nazism and many Protestants died fighting it. The forms or offshoots of Protestantism that advocated pacificism, anti-nationalism, or racial equality tended to oppose in the strongest terms. Prominent Protestant, or Protestant offshoot, groups known for their efforts against Nazism include the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Confessing Church. Many of their members died in the camps or struggled fiercely against the Nazis.
-
Wild_Thing
You might this link interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_religion.
Also, this one:
-
Gordy
The Watchtower and Hitler
-
LtCmd.Lore
Arguements that include the phrase "Prove me wrong" are generally flawed... I avoid those kind of arguements.
Prove me wrong, fairies exist... you can't can you.
Sometimes there simply is no proof, however lack of evidence to the contrary should never be taken as evidence that the statement is true, for therein lies the root of all false beliefs.
LtCmd.Lore
-
Scully
There is documentation out there that not only proves that JWs did NOT oppose Hitler, but in fact, tried to kiss his butt in order to curry favour with Hitler and the Third Reich. There are even some letters in circulation where Rutherford basically advanced the same belief as the Nazis that the Jews were evil people and trying to take control of the economy.
It was only after Hitler rejected the WTS as a possible paramour that they started opposing the regime.
Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich, by M. James Penton
Book Description
Since the end of World War II, leaders of the Jehovah's Witness movement in both Germany and elsewhere have steadfastly argued that Witnesses were united in their opposition to Nazism and did not collude with the Third Reich. Documents have been uncovered, however, that prove otherwise. Using materials from Witness archives, the U.S. State Department, Nazi files, and other sources, M. James Penton demonstrates that while many ordinary German Witnesses were brave in their opposition to Nazism, their leaders were quite prepared to support the Hitler government.
Penton begins his study with a close reading of the "Declaration of Facts" released by the Witnesses at a Berlin convention in June 1933. Witness leaders have called the document a protest against Nazi persecution, however closer examination shows it contained bitter attacks on Great Britain and the United States – jointly referred to as "the greatest and most oppressive empire on earth" – the League of Nations, big business, and above all, Jews, who are referred to as "the representatives of Satan the Devil."
It was later, in 1933 – when the Nazis would not accept Witness blandishments – that leader J.F. Rutherford called on Witnesses to seek martyrdom by carrying on a campaign of passive resistance. Many ultimately died in prisons and concentration camps, and postwar Witness leaders have attempted to use this fact to assert that Jehovah's Witnesses stood consistently against Nazism.
Drawing on his own Witness background and years of research on Witness history, Penton separates fact from fiction during this dark period.
-
garybuss
If a Witness would be foolish enough to tell me the Witnesses were the only religious affiliated group to oppose the German Nazi political party, I'd ask the Witness how the Witnesses could oppose a political party while staying politically indifferent as they teach? And why did they stop opposing the Nazi party?
The Nazi party operates legally and openly in the United States today. Are the Witnesses politically active in opposing that political group? How so, or why not? Or do the Witnesses approve of the current Nazi party? And why?
Why don't the Witnesses advertise their current opposition?
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/N_Alliance.asp -
Atlantis
http://www.reexamine.org/wtobserver/ (Click under Hitler--Documents when you get to WTO) These Songbook scans and this post may not show up properly here. I have the Zoom scans of this Songbook in my files. Does singing the German National Anthem sound like Jehovah's Witnesses stood firm against Hitler? The Jehovah's Witnesses used the Germany's national anthem in Germany!
Song 1928zoom +
On June 25th 1933, in the Tennishallen at Wilmersdorf, Berlin, the WBTS organized a convention at which they presented a "Declaration of Facts", written by Rutherford himself. This declaration has been exposed as an attempt to suck up to the Nazi-regime in an attempt to regain their confiscated property in Magdeburg (see James Penton, Apocalypse Delayed).
Cynicus
Song 1905 - 1zoom + In 1976 one of the top-brass JWs from the German branch office of the WTBS, Konrad Franke, traveled throughout Germany giving a speech on the history of Jehovah's Witness in the Nazi-period. In it he flagrantly contradicted the story about the convention of 1933 in Wilmersdorf that had been told by the WBTS since 1934. Amongst others, Franke said in his lecture that the Tennishallen were decorated with swastika-flags and that the opening song was a very controversial one, set to the tune of the number one Nazi-hymn, 'Deutschland, Deutschland über alles' (which is incidentally still the German national anthem, albeit with different words). The composition by Haydn was adopted by the German government in 1922 as their national anthem.
Song 1905 - 2zoom + The Awake! of July 8th, 1998, tries to control the damage in various respects (Norm has written an article about this as well). With regard to the song, nr. 64, "Zion's Herrliche Hoffnung", Awake! states that this song had been in the German WBTS songbooks since 1905 and that it was actually quite fitting that this song was picked for the opening of the convention due to its reference to the hope for Zion.
Song 1932 - 1zoom + Konrad Franke had told his audiences in 1976, however, that he and most of his fellow convention visitors were totally appalled by it, that they hadn't sung this song for years, and that many of the audience simply couldn't sing this song due to the emotions attached to it. Interestingly enough it has been tried since to verify the claim of the WBTS that song 64 was in the songbooks since 1905 and these attempts have failed so far.
Song 1923 - 2zoom + On this page you'll find scanned images of the songbooks published by the WBTS in Germany of 1905, 1923, and 1928. In both the editions of 1905 and 1923 there's no song listed with the title of "Zion's herrliche Hoffnung". Only in the edition of 1928, six years after Haydn's composition was adopted as Germany's national anthem, this song appeared in the German songbook.
zoom + Song 1928 - 1
Song 1928 - 2zoom + Song 1928 - 2
Thanks Cynicus,
Excellent material about the Wilmersdorf convention. There is so much spin in the Watchtower literature about that convention held in 1933. In the Awake! of July 8th, 1998 article they presented two pictures from inside the hall allegedly taken during the convention. These pictures show no Nazi symbols anywhere. Konrad Franke was there himself, so he of course knew what he saw, but as far as I can tell he didn’t say if the Nazi symbols was outside or inside the hall. There are however a plausible explanations. The Nazi youth organization that had used the hall previous to the Witnesses (Bible students) had not been able to remove all their props for the first day of the Witness convention but was able to do so in the evening after the first day, thus no such symbols on the pictures.
Another example of the weasel worded ways of the Watchtower Society is how they constantly try to inflate the number of “Bible students” present at that convention. Even the above mentioned Awake! had a stab at this:quote:
*** g98 7/8 p. 12 Jehovah’s Witnesses—Courageous in the Face of Nazi Peril ***
Therefore, the Magdeburg office arranged a convention to make use of the German citizens’ right of petition. On short notice, Jehovah’s Witnesses from all over Germany were invited to the Wilmersdorfer Tennishallen in Berlin on June 25, 1933. About 5,000 delegates were expected. Despite the hostile atmosphere, more than 7,000 courageously attended.It is really strange to observe this seemingly uncontrollable urge to lie that the Watchtower Society writers and leaders always display. They simply have to lie, even when it isn’t necessary. In the letter accompanying the “Declaration” which was “adopted” during the convention and sent to Hitler the number present was of course the round figure of 5000.
Here is the opening lines of the letter:quote:
“Most Honored Mr. Chancellor:
On June 25, 1933, a 5,000-delegate convention of German Bible Students (Jehovah's Witnesses), representing several million Germans who have been friends and followers of this movement for many years, was held in the Sporthalle Wilmersdorf in Berlin.”The usual Watchtower Society sense of proportions can be seen in this sentence: “representing several million Germans who have been friends and followers of this movement for many years,” What is that supposed to mean? 5000 Bible students “representing several million Germans”? No wonder Hitler and his underlings was less then impressed by such complete nonsense. I have no empirical data on this but other sources present at the convention has estimated that the number present was closer to 3000 than anything else. One thing is quite certain though, knowing the Watchtower way with numbers, we can be pretty sure that the 5000 figure given in the Hitler letter was pretty substantially inflated already. In the fifties the 5000 figure was already pumped up to 7000 and that’s usually the number they have stuck to. In all probability that’s 5000 too many.
Norm(Credits go to Norm and Cynicus)
-
Mystla
Prove me wrong, fairies exist... you can't can you.
That's because fairies DO exist!!!
Misty (a firm believer in fairies)