Is anyone familiar with the Gospel of Peter?
Evidently Jesus cries from the cross, “My power, my power, thou hast forsaken me.”
If this is an allusion to Psalm 22 then couldn’t “My power” be taken as a reference to El?
Compare that to Mark 14:62 where Jesus says “Power.”
Was Jesus’ crime that he said “El?”
Did the author of Mark 14 think that the sacred name was El?
I - know - I’m weird.
New Testament support for the name Yahweh?
by WhatSexRU 31 Replies latest watchtower bible
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WhatSexRU
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WhatSexRU
Also - concerning Psalm 110 and Kothar sitting at the right hand of Baal: Can anyone point me to any biblical or extra biblical texts that might serve as intermediate steps toward Jesus sitting at the right hand of God?
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Death to the Pixies
There is at least one other fragment of an LXX MS - found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, catalogued as 4Q LXX Lev [a] which in fact does not contain the Hebrew name. It uses "Kurios". Also dated to the 1CAD it may be older than the Fouad 266, by at least a generation.
Just for my own clarification, can you document that "kurios" is used in 4Q LXX Lev(A)? I had thought blank spaces were left where the tetra appeared in the Hebrew , not "kurios". I could be wrong.
Narkissos, I will look for the reference from Tov, if my memory serves me correct it was in his The Greek Minor Prophets Scroll from Navar Hever. I believe he challenges Pietersma's assertion based on the dative. But I should be more careful citing him till I read his comments again...
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Leolaia
Here is what Emanuel Tov wrote in Novum Testamentum (2001):
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Leolaia
Is anyone familiar with the Gospel of Peter? Evidently Jesus cries from the cross, “My power, my power, thou hast forsaken me.” If this is an allusion to Psalm 22 then couldn’t “My power” be taken as a reference to El? Compare that to Mark 14:62 where Jesus says “Power.” Was Jesus’ crime that he said “El?” Did the author of Mark 14 think that the sacred name was El?
No, I think that is very remote. The Canaanite/Israelite figure of El may indeed lie behind the Danielic and Enochic "Ancient of Days"/"Head of Days" (and the Enochic concept is clearly anticipatory of the Son of Man language in Mark 14:62), but nowhere is this figure called El in late Second Temple writings, nor would 'ly in Psalm 22 have been interpretable as "my El" imho.
Also - concerning Psalm 110 and Kothar sitting at the right hand of Baal:
Kothar sitting at the right hand of Baal??? Where in the world does this come from? Kothar was a figure from Ugaritic mythology, not in the OT AFAIK. Baal is also not in Psalm 110; the word for "lord" in v. 5 is 'dny "my lord", i.e. not involving b`l "lord/master"
Can anyone point me to any biblical or extra biblical texts that might serve as intermediate steps toward Jesus sitting at the right hand of God?
The "Book of Parables" of 1 Enoch, for starters (cf. 62:3-5 and other parallels).
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jayhawk1
For those of us non-scholar types, what is the LXX?
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WhatSexRU
No, I think that is very remote. The Canaanite/Israelite figure of El may indeed lie behind the Danielic and Enochic "Ancient of Days"/"Head of Days" (and the Enochic concept is clearly anticipatory of the Son of Man language in Mark 14:62 ), but nowhere is this figure called El in late Second Temple writings, nor would 'ly in Psalm 22 have been interpretable as "my El" imho.
I think you’re probably right but I wanted to bounce it around to elicit any comments. You never know what might fall out when you shake a tree.
What are your thoughts on “the Power” in Mark 14:62? Is this just a placeholder for the divine name YHWH?
Where did that expression come from? Is it used anywhere else?
What did it mean to commit blasphemy in Mark 14? Did Jesus need to drop 'the name' or would claiming to be 'the anointed one' suffice?
Kothar sitting at the right hand of Baal??? Where in the world does this come from?
From Ugaritic mythology. Ditto the footstool.
Baal is also not in Psalm 110 ; the word for "lord" in v. 5 is 'dny "my lord", i.e. not involving b`l "lord/master" I know.
Sorry. I wanted to talk about the similarities between Ugaritic mythology and Psalm 110, but I tried to go too fast and it came out weird.
Most folks think that Mark 14:62 is an allusion to Daniel 7 AND Psalm 110. But I’m a weirdo and I’m wondering if Psalm 110 is really necessary. Could the "sitting at the right hand" stuff have come from somewhere else?
This all ties into the issue of if any of the authors of the NT knew about the name YHWH because AFAIK the episode “Jesus vs. Sanhedrin” is the only place that comes close. Am I making any sense?
BTW Michael Heiser wrote a rebuttal to Mark S. Smith’s take on Deut 32:8~9 and Psalm 82. Have you read it?
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moggy lover
Dttp: My comment on 4Q LXX Lev [a] was based on the book:" The Jehovah's Witnesses New Testament" by Robert Countess [pg 30] where he writes:
"Dated as having been written about 1000 BC it contains Lev 26:2-16 the present writer observed this manuscript on display at the University of Pennyslvania Museum in 1965where it was featured along with other Dead Sea Scroll materials. A statement appended to the fragment read: ' This fragment is now the oldest copy of the LXX.' This portion of Leviticus contains two verses in which the MT has the Divine Name in Tetragram form, in neither instance did YHWH appear. The copyist maintained his usage of the Greek throughout"
As you can see, that last sentence is crucial, and I assume Countess implied that the copyist maintained the Greek usage of "Kurios" throughout.
Cheers
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Narkissos
jayhawk,
LXX = Septuagint, the traditional name for the "classical" translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek. The name (meaning "seventy") comes from the legend that it was written by 72 translators in 72 days (http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/letteraristeas.html). Actually it was a long and diverse process over several centuries, some texts being translated for the first time while others had already been revised, and concurrent versions of the same texts existed simultaneously.
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Narkissos
WSRU is probably referring to the Baal Epic:
Kothar-u-Khasis is sent.
After Kothar-u-Khasis arrived,
He sets an ox in front of Him.
A fatling directly before Him.
A chair is placed,
And He is seated
At the right of Aliyan Baal,
Until They have eaten
And drunk.However this is not a judgement but a banquet scene.
The footstool also occurs a number of times in the text (e.g. in the description of El's throne)
It seems very likely to me that such topoi belong to the wide cultural background of Psalm 110, but that they might have influenced directly the NT without OT (and other) mediations, especially that of Psalm 110 (which is # 1 OT prooftext in the NT) is highly unlikely imo.
ml
Dated as having been written about 1000 BC
I don't have the book but I assume it is 100 (just thought it might not be obvious to everybody).