JWs came to my door, and I really dissappointed myself

by jwfacts 32 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  buffalosrfree

  I had just recently talked with a jdub and the question of going out in service came up. She immediately brought up Matthew 28: 19,20 and then I pointed out lets read this chapter and see just who it was he was talking to. You (the jdub) say it was to his followers and the GB wants us to feel like we have a commission to go and preach the word. However, if we read the scriptures here in Matthew 28: 16 onward we will see that Jesus was there talking to the Eleven apostles (spelling?) when he told them he had received all authority in heaven and on earth and for them to go make disciples, baptize, teach etc. He didn't call all of his followers and the Watchtower Society tries to say. There stand is strictly designed to try and put a guilt trip on the rank and file.

  This momentarily stopped her, then she said there is nothing wrong with going out in service. I agreed, but there is something wrong when others try to pressure you into it, and also use the scriptures in a way designed to support their stand rather than what the scripture actually says. I then asked her to turn her bible to Ephesians 4:11 and explain that in relation to the Society's stand on all being witnesses and going out in public ministry. Well she just wanted to change the subject when she couldn't reconcile what the bible says to what the Society says, it says. But a seed was planted and hopefully she will think about it when she starts feeling guilty about no being out in service due to health or other reasons.

  Yes they have been so brainwashed that most of them can't and don't want to think for themselves. They can no longer accept the responsibility of thinking and making decisions for themselves.
• 

  Fleshybirdfodder

  I agree with Purps. You can't always be prepared when someone just shows up at your door. I love the organ transplant logic. He protected his people in the 70's when it was a "new" procedure, but not in the 60s? I suppose Geehomer had to watch the doctors for a decade to see if they had it figured out and was willing to use a few of his loyal followers as "test subjects" before making the official policy. I am actually impressed by these guys. If I had have knocked on your door when I was a dubby and you raised the issues you did I would have gone running back to the car with a case of spontanious diarrhea. Of course that probably wouldn't have happened since I knocked so softly at every door no one without their ear pressed to a glass against the door would ever hear me . I think a congrats are in order!
  
  FBF
• 

  some-xjw-guy

  But it's not about logic or reasoning, I think that's the main problem. It's personal, it involved you as a person, how you felt about yourself, and their arrogance and smugness involved them as persons, and the point is to try to get people out.

  Them - I have never heard of that (with a "I don't believe you and don't care" tone)

  Look at what this one is conveying, they are taking pride in their ignorance. How can you reason with someone when that is the case? And if you consider the attitude of the zealous young JW, they are like pack animals - there's not much reasoning to be had in that situation.

  When it comes to their belief system they are well "defended" - even if the defense doesn't make any sense. (but they can convince themselves of that and keep their head buried in the ground) I think the best way to get through to people when they don't have their guard up is actually with personal stuff. But thats just very unlikely to happen with any JW, since others are considered.. well, others, whether its people identified as worldly or bad association inactive ones or whatever. But just imagine if you were talking about their romantic interest or something, and since the religion has a say about everything there's likely to be something that ties back to the teachings, then you can REALLY involve them and it hits a lot closer to home. Unlikely I know, but hey maybe with family or whatever..

  Hmm, come to think of it the debating teachings approach is kind of like the narrow door .. I mean look at how much work it is to actually process all the information and then try to reason with them about it. (which is the harder part of course) But if you get to something real that affects one's life like with the other experience with this woman just telling how she feels, it can be a very simple point and BOOM - the point is made. Of course, in this case the broad way is actually the one leading to life, it involves life as people experience it - that's what makes it work.
• 

  JWdaughter

  You did fine! You gave them food for thought. Next time (and there will be one) you will feel better about it, and the next time even better. I have been out 25 years. That gives one a little time to hone ones objections down to the finer points. Decide what you are passionately and most logically angered about/disappointed about with the WT teachings, be as well informed as you can be and don't let them drag you off topic. But you have only been out a year, you said? You did awesome!

  Wow, a pioneer Bethelite (ex) right here in our forum. I feel tingly:)
• 

  some-xjw-guy

  Oh as far as actual how-to, you might just tie the personal matter back to the principle which relates to the WT teachings and policy - like should they tell you what kind of sex a married couple should have or something along those lines, you know what I mean.

  "Tell them the liberator who destroyed your property has realigned your perception."
• 

  OUTLAW

  You did just fine..You`ve got to remember,JW`s dont remember what they believe or what they preached in years gone by..They don`t mind out right lying either..Your never going to have a reasonable conversation with one..They`re just too stupid and arrogant...OUTLAW
• 

  johnny cip

  jWFACTS; has a great website and deep wt knowledge. and i like his posts alot. i don't think he and most here know how to use our knowledge. in personnal encounters with jw's. i find talking to dub's to start easy. and wait to see how stupid they act . the stupider they act . i try to let them bury themselves. then i hold them on a point, they can't get out of. ie. not knowing the history of the wt but going to the book study and jumping up and down about 1919 being the time jesus choose the wt as the fds. then i pound the shit out of them to the point of embarassing them. on how the hell can you go preaching this SHIT. and not even know the basics, jehovah HATES A FALSE WITNESS and your not qualified to walk my dog. it's all about putting them in their place. as ignorant wt zombies. their smugness don't last long with me. i can teach a jw or i can embarass the shit out of them. either way i try to never lose. in most cases you have to humble a jw , by lettin g them know they are spritual drunkards, just keep in mind i will spend dozens of hours with a jw if he's honest. otherwise i go for the throat. they never forget talking to me. i make sure if it. john
• 

  jwfacts

  Thanks. What a fantastic range of intelligent, and amusing responses.
• 

  plmkrzy

  One had only been baptised 2 years and the other was not yet baptised.
  
  jwfacts, you WERE beating your head against a wall! lol! They are both at their crossroads discovering the TRUTH! for the first time and very eager...well eager is putting it mildly.
  When they call on you again in about 2 or 3 more years after their enthusiasm has died down a bit you might make some headway, or a least a small dent.

  plm
• 

  some-xjw-guy

  I tried to describe a personal approach in another thread but one thing I forgot to mention is the need for rapport. If you think about it, a lot of the motivation for JWs is just to belong, even if some might think of it as a reasonable religion. But the point is to go somewhere deeper than the JW conditioning has gone, even if they go to 5 meetings a week and all of that if you go deep enough you can really hit a nerve, and not just to get them upset either - I mean when you really give someone pause.