by AGuest 49 Replies latest jw friends
Ohhhh, Doug... when you talk to me that way... well, what's a gurl to say? I know you think it just makes me all 'goosebumpy', yes, like it does you? Well... it doesn't, but what the heck, go on: speak abusively to me and about me.
But as you do, know that I have nothing... but love... and a sincere wish for peace... for you, dear one.
A slave of Christ, by means of an anointing with holy spirit, and if that makes me 'goofy' and 'nuts', then, well, so be it.
SJ
On the subject of Adam and Eve... (sort of):
Does the Genesis account of the temptation of Eve really not say more about the sin of pride than an issue of "Universal Sovereignty"? When I read that account, I see that Eve was offered to be like God, not replace him. See Gen 3:5. The offer was to be "like God, knowing good and bad". This is what appealed to Eve. Once again, I feel the JWs missed the point on this one. How many times in the Bible does God condemn a haughty spirit? It's almost a constant theme. It's still a problem today. The ego which works in all of us, still tries to make us like God. We crave praise, and to some extent even worship.
Any thoughts?
Dan
Dearest DanB... may you have peace!
Dear one, contrary to what the WTBTS and religion IN GENERAL have taught, it was neither the sin of pride nor 'universal sovreignty' that intially was the issue. First, what pride? Eve saw something she wanted is all. She gave in to the 'desire of the eyes', which originates with this world. So what? Who didn't/doesn't at some point another, other than my Lord? And my Father's universal sovreignty was NEVER an issue. If it were, why then would even Satan have 'come and taken his station' before him? No, Satan knew who was 'boss', as did Adam and Eve. As does ALL in the spirit realm, regardless of what we know here.
What the ISSUE was, was NOT that my Father told Adam and Eve, "don't eat from that tree because if you do I am going to kill you...". No, He said, "do not eat from it for in the day that you do... you WILL die!" It wasn't a RESTRICTION... it was a WARNING!
How so? Because it was the tree of the knowledge... of 'bad'. And the ONLY thing that was 'bad'... was DEATH. It was the tree that lead to KNOWING... Death! And my Father WARNED them, that if they ate, they WOULD know 'bad'... they would KNOW Death! And indeed, that is exactly who... and what... they came to 'know'.
Satan enticed Eve by appealing to a desire that was already there: he had seen her looking at the tree; he simply exploited that desire by adding to her uncertainty that she could 'know' something that even God knew... and perhaps be 'like' God. And yes, God... and ALL spirit creatures... 'knew' Death. For he is one of them. It is flesh with its blood that had not yet made acquaintance with Death.
And so Eve... was deceived. She had no concept of what... or rather, WHO... she was getting herself into 'knowing'. But Adam knew FULL well what... or rather WHO... it was he would 'know'. For unlike Eve, who was made from Adam, Adam... was made in GOD'S 'image'. He, too, possessed 'spirit'. THus, up until that time, although Adam knew OF death... Adam 'knew'... only LIFE. He KNEW my Father... and he KNEW my Lord (John 14:6). He 'knew' them... and was known BY them... in that they were 'in union'. ONE SPIRIT. Just as man who comes to 'know' a woman, becomes ONE flesh.
Adam, however, wanted to KNOW 'bad'... KNOW Death... and be 'in union' with Death. And he got what exactly what he sought. My Father simply tried to WARN him... not 'restrict' him. And Adam... failed to heed the warning. And even after he ate, he STILL could have saved himself... AND Eve... by simply stepping up to plate, ACKNOWLEDGING what he did... and ASKING for forgiveness. My Father's heart is LARGE... and He WOULD have forgiven Adam. For He LOVED Adam.
Instead, Adam chose to HIDE his error rather than confess it... then he BLAMED everyone else... the woman AND God... for doing what he himself CHOSE to do! He did not take responsibility for his sin; he did not 'own' it, confess it... and ask to be forgiven for it. Thus, he RECEIVED no forgiveness for it. THAT is where 'pride' came into the picture... and pure disobedience. His pride... prevented him from HUMBLING himself... and CONFESSING... and ASKING for forgiveness. So, while his choice caused his 'fall'... his pride kept him down.
Giving into the pull of the flesh is not in and of itself disobedience. That is why Paul SAID, "When I want to do what is right, what is bad is present in me... then it is no longer I, but the sin that is IN me that is working it out." But failing to RECOGNIZE, ADMIT, ACKNOWLEDGE, CONFESS and ASK FORGIVENESS for what our flesh does and has us do... is disobedience. Why? Because we have been TOLD... as Adam and Eve were most probably told... that ALL we have to DO... is those things... and we can and WILL be forgiven. King David knew this and acted appropriately when his error was revealed by Nathan. Moses knew it and acted appropriately when HIS error was revealed. Paul knew it; Peter knew it. Many... knew it and acted appropriately. They HUMBLED themselves... BEGGED forgiveness... and received it. And the provision is still true today.
Thus, if we are NOT forgiven, as were not Adam and Eve... it is because we do not WANT to be. We would rather stand fast in our pride and disobedience... and 'take our licks'... rather than humble ourselves before the mighty hand of God. And in such case, then, we CHOOSE Death... rather than CHOOSE... Life. And Life is as close within our grip... as is Death. From Adam on, however... the 'choice'... as to who we 'grope' for... has ALWAYS been ours.
I hope this helps, Dan B. And I wish you the greatest of peace.
A servant to the Household of God, Israel, and a slave of Christ,
SJ
Uh, sawthelight... please know that your email is 'restricted', so I can't email you. What, then, IS a gurl to do?
Email bigboi that pic.
ONE....
bigboi
"life's a bitch a with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch."
BigMan... you're TOO cute!
Peace!
SJ
Shelby, While I do believe that Adam and Eve knew that they were disobeying God, I don't believe they fully understood the consequences. What did they know of death? What did they know of bad? They knew that they were disobeying, yes, but they didn't have an understanding of the fear of God. It wasn't until AFTER Adam ate that they knew fear. The Bible says that the fear of Yahweh is the BEGINNING of wisdom. They didn't have that beginning of wisdom, the knowledge of good AND bad until AFTER they ate. They had only known GOOD up until that point. If they knew what they were doing, don't you think they wouldn't have eaten? I agree that Eve was only motivated by what she saw, not what she thought she would gain. The Bible says that 'she saw that the tree was good for food and something to be longed for to the eyes, yes the tree was desirable to look upon.' Again, I think this speaks to the fact that she was childlike, or innocent, in her true motivation. Adam wasn't deceived, but he was also like a child and had no fear of the warning given to him by his Father.
I just want to say that I truly enjoy your posts.
Who knows - may have been aliens. Who said God has to be this ghostly invisible being that floats around in space anyhow? Why not flesh and bone. Not so outlandish when you stop and think we were made in his image so to speak. Read the book of Ezekiel - this book of the bible does make somebody wonder - flying wheels and all and living creatures manning these "wheels". By the way - the wheels were described to have been made out of metal. Hmmmmmm.
Just a thought.
Shelby,
You never actually addressed a single thing that I said
You said:
: By the spirit of my Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES,
Then, I said:
Anyone who wants to worship a warrier-God is goofy. Check out the Taliban for confirmation. You true believers are simply nuts. And your warrier Gods are simply impotent. You are spitting in the wind. That's it.
Then, you spouted this goofy nonsense:
:Ohhhh, Doug... when you talk to me that way... well, what's a gurl to say? I know you think it just makes me all 'goosebumpy', yes, like it does you? Well... it doesn't, but what the heck, go on: speak abusively to me and about me.
I re-post my argument: anyone who wants to worship a warrier god is goofy. God is love. God is peace. God is forgiveness. God is "Jah of Armies." Something doesn't fit here.
Farkel
"When in doubt, duck!"
AG,
Okidok is correct. Read Z. Sitchin's books for the answers.
TR
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
—Edmund Burke
Shelby are you a Star Trek Fan?
I heard the nephilim were like the Klingons around Uranus
