It must be "Global Warming"

by Warlock 93 Replies latest social current

• 

  SixofNine

  "So which was it Leo? Warmer or cooler?"

  It was cooler, if I'm thinking of the same thing as Leo. It's one of the most fascinating discoveries I can remember; those jet contrails actually reflect sunlight enough to measurably affect the earth's temps.

  From:http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arch/7_6_96/bob1.htm

  "Contrails develop when hot, humid fumes from a jet engine meet the cool air of the upper troposphere. Water vapor in the exhaust and atmosphere freezes to create tiny cloud particles, much like the mist that forms when a person exhales on a cold winter day. As turbulence in the upper atmosphere tears contrails apart, they can spread into wispy sheets essentially identical to natural cirrus clouds.

  Engines can also stimulate cloud growth indirectly, by way of tiny aerosol particles within the exhaust. These aerosols-droplets of sulfuric acid and specks of soot-serve as seeds. They provide surfaces upon which water molecules can condense or freeze to create cloud particles, explains Eric J. Jensen, a participant in SUCCESS and a researcher at NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, Calif.

  Scientists do not know the fate of the aerosols once they leave the back end of a jet engine and start mixing with the ambient air. The specks and droplets may be among the ingredients necessary for creating contrails. They may also thicken natural cirrus clouds, rendering them more opaque to sunlight and making them last longer.

  In fact, so little is known about the clouds produced by aircraft exhaust that researchers cannot say whether, on balance, they cool or warm the climate. The uncertainty exists because high-altitude clouds have numerous and contrary effects. Contrails and cirrus help cool the globe by reflecting sunlight that would otherwise hit Earth's surface. At the same time, they exert a warming influence because they absorb infrared radiation emitted by the ground, thus trapping energy and heating the atmosphere."
• 

  Seeker4

  This has been a big issue here in Vermont, as the first week of the new legislative session they brought in Bill McKibben, Amory Lovins and several other global climate change experts to speak to the legislators all week long. Huge press about it. Considering we had the warmest December in recorded history here in the Northeast, it seemed apropos. Our economy is taking a hit big time. The ski areas can't even make snow it's been so warm, loggers can't get into the woods, bear are not denning up, we've got all sorts of birds hanging around that should be out of here - it's scary.

  There was a huge article in the latest Sunday Rutland Herald on this. Also in Vermont is one of of the biggest critics of the issue, John McLaughry is his name (may not have the spelling perfect). Interestingly, McLaughry now states that we are definitely experiencing climate change, he just argues that it's not because of any human activity. Even the Bush administration admits this now, though they dragged their asses for years on it.

  No, something is happening, and now that it's hitting the economy, and we've got a Democratic majority, we'll start to see some action. Like Warlock, I questioned this for a while, but more and more we're seeing evidence to the contrary. Number one is that the data shows that the biosphere is becoming more entropic, disorganized and disrupted each year - these crazy weather patterns are an example of that, and research climatologists are among the loudest voices pointing out that something is wrong. How much of it is man-made will be better determined with time. I don't think this is just a natural phenomenon, and the further you go in the north or south latitudes, the more dramatic the changes.

  I mean, how long can you shit in your nest before you realize it's not a good thing? Or how long do you shit in your nest and just say its only natural to be all covered in shit? How much pollution can we dump into the air, earth and water and keep kidding ourselves that it's not creating any problems? The real scientific community is debating this about as much as the real scientific community debates evolution.

  Sorry, got to disagree with you on this Warlock.

  S4
• 

  Abaddon

  Let's be clear that 'Climate Change' is the best way to describe it. Yeah, at this time the general trend is warming, but that doesn;t mean colder weather in places. Currents change too.

  To be blunt, I think anyone who has spent more than a week researching the subject superficially, and still thinks there is not a fossil-fueled link warming trend, is not looking in the right places.

  THINK ABOUT IT.

  Who paid for all those scientists who said smoking wasn't inked to cancer?

  Find a vocal, scientifically qualified (in that field) climate change cynic, and then follow the money. Do it for each of the few that there are. Then tell me what you think; me telling it is just yadayada, you got to do it yourself.

  It is not however, the end of the world. The Dutch will build higher dykes. Bangladesh will cease to exist. Some Pacific Island will disappear. 100's of millions at least will be displaced as their homes on or near coats are flooded. The Canadian Forests will be felled as the Mid-West ceases to be a viable place to grow wheat and entire communities lives will change or end.

  For some of us the seaside will be closer and the summers hotter. For many, a far less easy ride.

  Swiss banks no longer finance ski developments below 1,500m. Champagne growers in France are buyng land with identical soil in England, anticipting moving grape production there as Champagne's climate becomes less favourable for vines.

  It is real, it's just some people who are making lot of oney and their political friends are quite happy with the status-quo.

  I mean, they'll be be affected by it, will they?
• 

  Warlock

  Sorry, got to disagree with you on this Warlock.

  Seeker,

  That's fine with me. We all have our opinions, We can look at a set of 'facts' and come to a different conclusion. The 'experts' that we seek out many times are 'experts' that may hold a bias toward what we believe. That's why there are different opinions on the same issue.

  When I started this thread, it was kind of meant to be 'tongue in cheek'. Just to state some facts, it HAS snowed in Malibu in the past, I have seen lawns frosted over in past winters, and this morning was not the first time in my life I've ever had to scrape ice off my windshield.

  Just because there are crazy weather patterns this year, doesn't prove anything except "there are crazy weather patterns this year". We do not have a full and complete history of the weather dating back to the beginning of man, so we really have to rely on the 'experts' of today to give us their conclusions based on 'their interpretation' of the evidence, or lack of it.

  Judging from the track record of modern man, especially politicians, I just cannot trust that this push of the global warming agenda is in the common man's best interests. If that were so, there would nary be one person on this earth in poverty, there would be peace on earth, etc.

  This is my opinion, one of 6 billion. I appreciate all who have contributed to this thread, and those who will continue to post on it.

  Warlock
• 

  RAF

  Abaddon : For some of us the seaside will be closer and the summers hotter. For many, a far less easy ride.

  Yep ... We're running to that exactly ... (and I don't think that there is a way out ... Nope
  
  The only thing you can do is taking care of where you want to stay or built you house today ... It might be under the water in the futur.
• 

  Abaddon

  Ha, even though I live in the Netherlands, my house is 20m above sea-level.
• 

  SWALKER

  Here are a couple of articles that I think are well written on the subject:

  http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0110-03.htm

  http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update20.htm

  Swalker
• 

  Seeker4

  Warlock,

  You may have seen this link to an interview I did a few weeks ago with an environmental scientist, and also commented on it, but here's the link again to the article:

  http://www.peoplesvoicemagazine.com/FeatureStory.html

  I have to say, this is a scientist that I know is not pursuing a political or economic agenda - just telling it like he sees it. I have to respect that. And, despite a decade or more as a professional journalist, which is a profession notorious for producing cynics, I think that most folks are generally doing what they think is right.

  And does your post mean that you don't really live in Spain and that you're not 100+ years old?? Hey. man, what gives? I'd love to come to Spain and visit!! We could wander the beaches or mountains, drinking wine and arguing literature, science, art and religion, then swear undying brotherhood.

  S4
• 

  wozadummy

  When I was at school scientists talked of another ice age coming, now it's global warming

  Are these the same scientists today?
• 

  Kudra

  -huh, I don't get it...
  
  Why are all the posters who are saying that the current warming trend is a product of fossil fuels and other anthropogenic causes the ones who are citing actual scientific articles and scientists that actually study climate and paleoclimate while the "naysayers" the ones talking about the weather in their backyards last week and IGNORING 100's of years of instrumental data and hundreds of thousands of years of proxy temperature/greenhouse gas data?
  
  wow, I just don't get it...