must we practice what we believe?

by tetrapod.sapien 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  tetrapod.sapien

  for example, i often hear atheists say that while they have a "lack of belief" in any Gods (negative position), they are going to make the positive step in their lives and live them like there were no Gods. which is to say that they make their own morals and choices without fear of some God. but what if an atheist decided one day that so and so religion, that worships so and so god, makes him feel good emotionally, and gives his ever vigilant left hemisphere a break on sundays. (perhaps his pineal gland needs a massage after laborous hours reading peer reviewed papers;) he admits that this is a subjective thing, but does it anyway. praying. singing hymns. speaking in tongues. or whatever it is they do. smoke ganja and praise jah. whatever.

  is it some how wrong, or immoral, or distasteful to believe one thing, but practice another in one's life?

  i know that to religious people, the answer is yes, because then you are somehow not honest to the truth of your belief system as coming from a divine source. but i wonder about atheists? if your best friend was an atheist, and you were an atheist too, but one day she started praying to some god, how would you react when she explained that she knows that the god she prays to does not exist, and that it is for emotional comfort only? (or that she was watering her calcified pineal gland with a little soma pinoline after decades of letting it atrophy)

  tetra
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  5go

  As a weak atheist I wouldn't care unless they did one of two things tried to convert me, or hurt me, themshelves, or others. I think someday if we don't find proof of a god or gods then we will create one ( I.E. a computer or machine ). Crazy belief but in my opion so is any other belief not provable.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  hi 5go,

  i'm a weak atheist too (lack of belief).

  I think someday if we don't find proof of a god or gods then we will create one

  but we have already done this. this is what all the gods up to this point have been. we made them in our image. why would any god in the future be different?

  i think the future will sort of suck if we just keep inventing gods. i say it's time that we woke up and understood the fact that we *are* gods.

  but thanks for answering the question too. and i guess that those are very fair limits to put on how far you would play along.

  peace,

  tetra
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  FMZ

  Tetra :)

  Not following you around, really... hehe... you just bring some interesting discussions to the table ;) (BTW, I started reading up on the two authors you mentioned on the other thread, and then we lost electricity due to an ice-storm, so I've not got around to finishing up with all that). Anyhow, to the topic at hand:

  I think the thing we are really approaching here is cognitive dissonance to some degree, and while cognitive dissonance is generally (for want of a better word) destructive, when fully understood it *can* be used as a tool.

  I personally do a few things which go against my general belief system. One of which is praying. Now, I wouldn't call myself an atheist as such, more of a pantheist. I don't believe in a singular, personal God. I don't believe there is some ultimate deity in the sky listening to my call for help. I believe (much the same as you) that we are all little gods. We create, mold, and destroy reality. So, with this, why do I pray?

  I think I pray for the very same reason that I believe people have created Gods (big "G") over the ages. We can relate to a personal God. We can view "Him" as a "Father" (overuse of quotes, maybe? hehe). And in using this dissonance, in understanding the differences between what I practice and what I actually believe, I can more readily form and solidify my intent and energies and send them into the world, because I feel at that moment that I can relate to reality itself. I personally find it quite difficult to pray to Reality directly... hehe... (the other way I have of doing this is through meditation, but all too often I find myself unable to non-verbally emit the energy and intent that I would like, (oh, and of course, "being the change that I wish to see in the world")).

  So my short answer here would be: If it works for you and creates positive energy in your life and allows you to form your positive intent more readily, then go for it. :) Again, though, I feel it is important to understand that this type of dissonance is only a tool, and cannot be used as a crutch.

  As you mentioned at the end of your post, it really is just emotional comfort, BUT, we are emotional beings when all is said and done, and often can't really grasp the ideas and concepts that come along with whatever belief system we hold, so sometimes we need to bring it to our emotional level.

  Just a few thoughts ;)

  FMZ
• 

  cognizant dissident

  if your best friend was an atheist, and you were an atheist too, but one day she started praying to some god, how would you react when she explained that she knows that the god she prays to does not exist, and that it is for emotional comfort only? (or that she was watering her calcified pineal gland with a little soma pinoline after decades of letting it atrophy

  Hey, whatever gets ya through the day, I always say. We all need a little denial, delusion, (alcohol, weed, chocolate) sometimes. Let's face it, sometimes reality sucks. So, if it's not hurting anyone, praying can be a lot less harmful (fattening) than other comforts we might give ourselves. Now, if my friend starts asking me to die for her God, or sacrifice my children or something, then all bets are off!

  Cog

  ps: It's great to see you posting again Tetra. How are you liking living in beautiful BC?
• 

  Narkissos

  Maybe there is no less diversity (or potential for diversity) in one man than there is in all mankind.

  Consistency = self-mutilation...

  The knife or the mask.. that is not even a question.
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  Sad emo

  I re-read your post 3 times and I might still have misunderstood somewhere, but here's my initial thoughts:

  they are going to make the positive step in their lives and live them like there were no Gods. which is to say that they make their own morals and choices without fear of some God.

  I am a believer, but I don't practice my morals and choices out of fear of God (defining fear here as being scared of Him), I believe I would have made roughly the same choices even if I was atheist.

  what if an atheist decided one day that so and so religion, that worships so and so god, makes him feel good emotionally, and gives his ever vigilant left hemisphere a break on sundays. (perhaps his pineal gland needs a massage after laborous hours reading peer reviewed papers;) he admits that this is a subjective thing, but does it anyway. praying. singing hymns. speaking in tongues. or whatever it is they do. smoke ganja and praise jah. whatever.

  I wouldn't have any major problem with someone who did this - speaking truthfully here, I'd have a tiny judgemental voice within saying 'hypocrite' but there's a much louder voice which drowns that out saying 'don't judge' because I don't know what the bigger picture is - who knows it might be God who has brought the atheist to that point and it could be one step on the road to belief

  is it some how wrong, or immoral, or distasteful to believe one thing, but practice another in one's life?

  I don't think it is - hypocritical and self-damaging from a purely human point of view maybe, but for someone who believes in a higher power which is able to guide and influence lives, it would be a case of 'God looks at the heart and motives'

  *sigh* my head hurts now, I need coffee!
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  jinjam

  imo without belief we have nothing,even if you believe in karma it some kind of belief, i think at some moment or time in our lives we contemplate whether we evolved and, or we were created by a god!( i think that moment comes when you old and dying) I'm agnostic or rather better put Confused,i suppose it depends on the day.
  
  I can't help saying that only recently i have prayed, not sure to whom, but i felt a certain inner peace, which is so wierd yet comforting, but on the other hand i wake up and i see the world and peoples behaviour towards each other and it makes me wonder, how we do things without thinking,that we cannot be kind or respectful even to people that we know.If god was a god of love how come i don't see or feel it.
  
  
  "which is to say that they make their own morals and choices without fear of some God."
  
  I do know the things that i believe in, I keep, they are rules to my life that make me a better person, more open minded, respectful, or at least i hope so!
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  lovelylil

  Good Morning Tetra,

  In my life I do try to live by what I believe in and practice it in my life. For me, not to practice what I am preaching I believe would be hypocritical. Of course, in theory this works well but no one is perfect all the time. And although we have good intentions to practice what we believe, sometimes we don't. But generally, I'll say more than 90% of the time, I do practice what I believe in.

  Also as a parent, If I am not modeling or "practicing" certain behaviors to my kids that I am telling them to practice, this also would be hypocritical. My dad used to say "do as I say, not as I do". I had virtually no respect for the man when I was growing up. For one thing, he would tell me not to lie, but then lie to my face. I had no trust for him at all, I am sorry to say.

  But my kids I know for sure respect me and have full confidence I am the same person who stands up for what I believe to be right and just to do. And I carry it out also, not just talk about it. And they expect certain behaviors from me based upon past experience. Here is an example; I was in a disagreement with relative one day and they accused me of lying. My kids immediately came to my defense and told them "our mother does NOT lie!". They knew it for a fact because I HATE liars. I've taught them this since the time they were born and they heard me say it many times. And they know no matter how painful the discussion I need to have with them, I do not lie to them. They can fully trust me at my word. I hate lying so much, I will cut off a friendship immediately if I find out you lied to me and I have done this. I ABHOR lying. And it really has nothing to do with my religion. But more so because of my father and not being able to trust my parent at his word.

  So, in answer to your question I do practice what I believe. And not only do I practice it - I totally LIVE what I believe. Should others do this too? Well, I can't bind thier conciences and tell them what to do in thier lives. But it works in my life. Peace, Lilly
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  BlackSwan of Memphis

  It would not appear to make a helluva lot a sense.

  Why pray to a God that you don't believe is there? For comfort.. So the act of praying brings comfort, ok, well, that still doesn't make sense, because I would think that the comfort comes in with the hope that the God is listening and hearing.

  On the other hand, take a cradle Catholic who no longer believes in God, but they continue to go through the motions. Church, rosary, penance etc. This would make some sense to me, because the tradition that they were raised with has certain emotional connection. I.e. praying the rosary when someone has died, has in itself a sense of familiarity, which brings this girl comfort. That makes sense, I can see that.

  Either way, every person has to make their way spiritually. And I think that even atheists have a spiritual side to them, so to speak, and it might just be that sometimes an atheist takes the route of church and praying, if only to satisfy this side of them. Which, when it comes down to it, its their life and they can do what they want. And if this helps them through life, and helps them understand who they are and the world around them, then I would say yeah, go for it.

  It's all a learning experience anyway.