Floyd Kite's "Enduring the Tests Within God's Organization" (1980)

by Leolaia 62 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • bobld
    bobld

    Re: F.Kite's 1980 talk

    He talks about reading the bible contextually with extended application to understand it properly and get the correct meaning.So why doesn't the gb/wbts read the bible correctly or do they read it at all.He said"Do you realize all the adjustments you have to make to stay in the truth." NO KIDDING the list is as long as an arm."There will be more changes that you will have to experience."THIS GUY F.KITE IS A PROPHET.Look, he said there would be more changes and this was in 1980.Sure enough 15 years later they changed the GENERATION that would see the end of this in 1995.How about the revelation book it wasn't even written until 1988 and than in 2006 there were 70..count them 70 adjustments,man this guy is GGOOOD.They make adjustment that even GOD would not think of.Forget 2 Timothy 3:16,17.

    Bob

  • grissom6471
    grissom6471

    "O, really? Do you follow the Governing Body? Also, I'm trying to recall which man I follow right now.....hmm...let me see...which man/group of men do I regard as my leader....hmm.....I'll have to get back to you on that one." No, I don't follow the governing body anymore than I follow the local elders. They merely oversee the worldwide congregation just as the overseers in the local congregations oversee that. Jehovah's Witnesses follow Jesus, that is why we are not stumbled by what men do or by what is printed. We look to the reality and not focus on what the Watchtower has printed.

  • grissom6471
    grissom6471

    plmkrzy said: "but the ones who stay in the faith are followers of Jesus The organization." Jesus is leading the organization so there is no difference there. It is stupid people that make it an either/Or situation.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step
    They merely oversee the worldwide congregation just as the overseers in the local congregations oversee that. Jehovah's Witnesses follow Jesus, that is why we are not stumbled by what men do or by what is printed. We look to the reality and not focus on what the Watchtower has printed.

    If any lurker is reading this post, you need to read the definition of 'cognitive dissonance' and then apply the above statement as a prime example. Cognitive dissonance is a common feature of all cult and high-control religions, a feature that all of us who were once JW's recognize instantly.

    HS

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    The Bible Teach (2005) book says:

    *** bh chap. 19 p. 191 par. 19 Remain in God’s Love ***
    19 As we associate with other worshipers of Jehovah, we strengthen the bonds of love and friendship in the congregation. It is important that we look for the good in one another, as Jehovah looks for the good in us. Do not expect perfection from your fellow believers. Remember that all are at different stages of spiritual growth and that every one of us makes mistakes. (Colossians 3:13) Seek to build close friendships with those who love Jehovah intensely, and you will find yourself growing spiritually. Yes, worshiping Jehovah with your spiritual brothers and sisters will help you to remain in God’s love.

    Conversely, it is important that we look for the bad in those outside the organization.

  • VM44
    VM44

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  • VM44
    VM44

    Did no one recognize what I did? --VM44

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    VM44...It took a while to get it, but I got it.

    The story of what happened in Taiwan is interesting. The official Watchtower descriptions of this schism are not as explicit...they do not reveal that the leader of the schism was their own branch overseer for Taiwan, or that he himself had been sexually promiscuous (as alleged), or that this man suffered persecution for his faith during WWII. Here are the two allusions to the incident in post-1970 literature:

    *** yb72 p. 230 Taiwan ***

    Even responsible brothers were charged with dishonesty, favoritism, immoral activities and lack of loyalty to the theocratic organization. And, unfortunately, some of the charges were true. Some had to be disfellowshiped, others removed from service either as overseers or special pioneers, and still others were disciplined. Some of those disfellowshiped turned against the Society openly and began to use their influence with the brothers in a number of congregations to turn them away also. The opposed ones who had been expelled from the organization even went so far as to lodge charges against the organization of the Witnesses in various departments of the government. Congregations were urged to refuse the visit of Society-appointed circuit servants. It also came out during the investigations that many had been recommended and eventually appointed to serve as special pioneers, overseers in congregations and even as circuit servants, not because they were Scripturally qualified, but because they were related to or under the influence of the one recommending them.

    *** w79 9/1 p. 10 A Different Struggle for Survival in Taiwan ***

    The simple openness of the tribal people enabled them to accept the Bible’s message of survival readily. But would they be able to defend and hold fast to their hope under trial? Late 1961 brought a test that revealed a weakness. The first Amis man to accept the truth before World War II was disfellowshiped, and immediately he set out to capture the whole organization for himself. Many of the 2,500 reporting field service up to that time were his relatives and friends, and quite a number of these succumbed to his threats and persuasions. Sadly, many from the tribal areas have continued to fall away because of the enticements of materialism and other factors.

    And here is Floyd Kite's more candid version of the incident:

    What about the branch overseer in Taiwan? It was just a few issues of the Watchtower ago we had an interesting article about Taiwan and what happened in that country. Back in the 1960s, the branch overseer of Taiwan had been invited by the Watchtower Society to attend the ten-month course at Gilead for branch overseers. Just before he was to leave Taiwan to come to the United States, he was exposed as having been an immoral man with many women. Immediately the Watchtower Society organized a special committee. He was disfellowshipped. He then took the Watchtower Society to court and sued them for slander. That added to the publicity of the thing! The Watchtower Society won the suit. But you look in the Yearbooks in the 1960s and it’s acknowledged in this recent Watchtower article on Taiwan, the work of Jehovah’s Witnesses steadily declined year after year because this man had been so prominent, even suffering incarceration at the hands of the Japanese during World War II, and then teaching the truth to so many of the mountain people of Taiwan, and later carrying on for a lengthy period of time this immortality, finally being exposed -- why, the organization’s ranks dropped year after year. It was such a tremendous impact on God’s people because of this one man. Think of how bewildering, confusing such a thing is.

    Does anyone have access to Yearbooks from the 1960s to post the figures for Taiwan from 1960-1970? I know that they were still decreasing in the 1970 Yearbook (peak publishers of 1,087, a "slight decrease" from the year before due to "further cleansing," p. 286).

    As for this man being incarcerated by the Japanese during WWII, the 1972 Yearbook account of Taiwan (p. 215) interestingly mentions a "Brother Idei" (= Motohiro Idei, 1 September 1991 Watchtower, p. 10) as the first convert in Taiwan by the missionaries ("the first Amis man to accept the truth before World War II," according to the 1979 Watchtower article, above), baptized in December 1937 with his wife after just two days of Bible study immediately after the missionaries' arrival. The Ideis figure very prominently in the early half of the story of JW evangelism in Taiwan, and there is an account of Mr. Idei's incarceration by the Japanese from June-October 1938. But there is no indication that this same Mr. Idei who kept his faith under persecution (and thus was favorably mentioned for this) was the same person who later "turned against the Society openly" and "set to capture the whole organization for himself", if this was indeed the same person, in which case Idei then becomes an anonymous troublemaker, as that would spoil the otherwise nice story about the Ideis.

    I'm not sure however if this is indeed the person in question, despite the fact that he was the first convert there and despite the fact that he was incarcerated. The 9/1/1991 Watchtower autobiography by Sister Idei indicates that she met Motohiro in Japan who then moved with her to Taiwan in c. 1932 (to the outskirts of Chiai in central Taiwan), whereas the 1979 article claims that the person in question was an "Amis man", i.e. an indigenous native of Taiwan. On the other hand, Chiayi was the home of the Tsou tribe of the Amis, and one Japanese website about the JWs (http://www.geocities.jp/todai_sha/relative_persons/relative_persons.html) claims that Motohiro Idei, husband of Miyo Idei, was the Japanese name for Chen Kuanpei.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Here is a Google translation of the Japanese blurb on Motohiro Idei:

    Hiroshi Chen ? (the Japanese name: Dei ? Yutaka [around original wide]) 1905 birth. Japanese? [yonadabu] of the Taiwan graduate which is active with Japanese ode Yamagata Kainan Itiminami Nogami. In 1937 Taiwan [baputesuma | baptized]. 1939 (1939) June 22nd, in Taiwan arrest (34 years old) Chen Kuanpei (Motohiro Idei: Japanese name)

    I'm not sure why there are two Chen names here for Motohiro (Hiroshi Chen, Chen Kuanpei), and whether this is saying that he is a "Taiwan graduate" (born in Taiwan in 1905?), but it looks like Chen was a name associated with Motohiro Idei. Here is a reference to a Taiwanese "Chen Ah Pang" (= Romanization of "Chen Kuanpei" ?) in the Watchtower:

    *** w57 8/15 p. 508 Part 4—Rounding the World with the Vice President ***

    To save time, all reading of the prepared manuscript in English was eliminated, and the Chinese translator read the introductory material in Chinese and the Ami interpreter rendered it in Ami. When the resolution itself came for presentation, then, because of its technicalities, this Ami interpreter was replaced by Chen Ah Pang. Following the Chinese translation, sentence by sentence, Brother Chen used a printed Japanese translation of the resolution and translated from this into Ami. Before it is completely finished, off goes the electricity and the blackness of a moonless night engulfs the entire assembly. But flashlights quickly beam upon the manuscripts, and candles are set burning on the platform, and the presentation of the resolution goes on, and finishes. Brother Chen in Ami moves the adoption of the resolution. The Society’s district servant as convention servant seconds the motion.

    While the "district servant" is here distinguished from Chen Ah Pang (= Chen Kuanpei?), it is noteworthy that a few years later, "Chen Ah Pang" is listed in the 1959 Yearbook (p. 61) as a "special appointed overseer" and this is the list where we'd expect to find the name of the Taiwan branch servant. The name "Motohiro Idei" is not on this list. So it looks like "Chen Ah Pang" is probably the person in question, tho it is unclear what relation he has with the Motohiro Idei who was incarcerated. Although the quote above associates Chen Kuanpei with Motohiro Idei, the 8/15/1957 Watchtower mentions a "son" of "Chen Ah Pang" and his wife, whereas Miyo Idei states that she did not have any children with her husband (9/1/1991 Watchtower, p. 13).

  • jeanV
    jeanV

    I have a copy of the talk on tape. like some of you I listened to it 10's of times. Great speaker indeed. about the content, it always depends from which side you look at it

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