Floyd Kite's "Enduring the Tests Within God's Organization" (1980)

by Leolaia 62 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  braincleaned

  It's an amazing feat to make circular thinking seem like logic in progress, and here we have a good example of that.

  I am now an atheist, so my comment reflects this conclusion.

  The question here is plainly about the character of God. Is he good, or bad (if he exists)?

  Jehovah himself is portrayed throughout the Bible as a "Heavenly Father,” and as such, he has the OBLIGATION to look out for his children/creation. The sheer idea of "undeserved kindness" is preposterous. Any parent knows that. Having children COMPELS us to love and protect them. Parents serve their kids -- not the other way around.

  Hence, this talk shows a very dark side of the supposed creator -- yet it all makes sense. Indeed, HE is the one that accepted Satan’s duel, and above all, HE is the one that empowered him, to the point of making him the ‘god of this system!’

  Character-wise, not much has to be added to a God that shreds 42 ‘small’ boys apart for calling a prophet “baldy”... (sounds like the kind of punishment Saddam Hussein would have ordered.) Since day one, after promising death for disobedience to the first couple, HE added pangs of pain for childbirth and cursed the soil! I call that overreacting and lying on the punishment promised. He does have a temper, doesn't he? Of course, he also encouraged slavery and even legislatated it. Nice. A human can own another human...

  In short, that God appoints “traitors” with his Holy Spirit to test those who already live the difficulties of everyday life, does not shine in his honor. Thank you Daddy...

  But when you have charm and humor, as in this talk, it seems people will naively eat out of your hand -- and akin to an abused child, love their daddy nonetheless.
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  braincleaned

  Kite says " The number one test is this: will I be loyal to the organization God is using in spite of the people that are in it? That’s a big test. "

  I ask a similar question; " will I be loyal to the Nazi organization in spite of the people that are in it?"

  Ironically, he's talking about those who couldn't stand the lies and deception, like Ray Franz... whom they framed, then slandered.
• 

  Pistoff

  BTTT

  Would this talk be allowed by current leadership? No way, IMO.

  This talk shows me how dramatically the message has been dumbed down, and how narrow the focus has become. I don't believe the GB would ever allow any speaker to talk like this about faults in the congregation.
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  yesidid

  You are correct Pistoff.

  They would not allow all their faults to be aired in this manner. But they may not have liked it even then. Remember CO's made up their own talks in those days.

  Now every, that is, EVERY talk is an outline or a script from the service department.

  I was talking to a current D O and he clearly resents not being able to give HIS OWN talks.
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  Aussie Oz

  I think they would give this talk again.

  They 'need' to as the results and reach of the internet are far greater than gossip of the 80s.

  They will spin spin spin, play the same lines etc and 99% of the flock will laugh, clap and swallow it down and say

  ''I love you big brother''

  Oz
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  Band on the Run

  While a JW, my mom would exclaim to her family how the Holy Spirit could be so changeable. They always responded that she was factually correct but facts don't matter b/c it is all a test. My mom said "BS." Only a sicko God keeps testing and testing. Pop quizess constantly.

  Yet my extended family has been active since Russell. A whole lot of changes. Is there anything too sacrosanct to not be a test?
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  Pistoff

  Once you are away for a time, the logical fallacies and emotional tricks of a talk like this are apparent. I would have lapped up that talk like an eager puppy years ago, just because it is HONEST. There is no such honesty in any talk or writing I have seen in the last 20 years.

  The talks I have heard when I have gone in the last 10 years are nothing like this talk; this talk has some sophistication to it, even though it is manipulative

  It actually admits how crazy half the fellowship is, and we just have to endure it.

  That is nothing like what I hear or read now from the writers; no admission of anything like this talk.

  From Aussie Oz:

  They 'need' to as the results and reach of the internet are far greater than gossip of the 80s.

  I agree, they need to, but they do not have the trust or foresight to do it.
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  breakfast of champions

  I could see talks like this being given in 2015.
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  rather be in hades

  kite was my book study conductor in the early 90s when i was little. this talk was an interesting one and it's hard to imagine i would have fallen for this sort of logic. i was thinking of showing it to my mom, but on second thought, i think she'd end up further in than she already is lol.
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  smiddy

  Bump